Discuss Poker Here Thread(OT)

by **Laexile** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:27:49

Holding AH JD and the table has JH 6H 3H 7C. Player on right bets $2. I call. Player to left raises to round limit of $10. Call or fold?

by **Irish Car Bomb** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:27:57

The Red Tornado wrote:WSOP starts today!!

Woohoo!!

The big fad be a big fade?

I recommend checking cardplayer.com for updates and coverage, it's an excellent site.

NEGREANU's "schedule" for the WSOP (must be nice:

Jun 1: 12:00pm $5000 No Limit/Limit Hold'em
Jun 2: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 3: 5:00pm $2500 Omaha HL/Stud HL
Jun 4: 5:00pm $5000 Pot Limit Omaha (RB's)
Jun 5:12:00pm $1000 No Limit Hold'em (RB's)
Jun 5: 5:00pm $1500 Omaha HL (if out of other event)
Jun 6: 5:00pm $5000 7 Card Stud
Jun 7: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Hold'em Short Handed
Jun 8: 5:00pm $5000 Pot Limit Hold'em
Jun 9: 5:00pm $2500 H.O.R.S.E.
Jun 10: 5:00pm $5000 Limit Hold'em
Jun 11: 12:00pm $2500 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 11: 5:00pm $2000 Stud H/L (if out of other event)
Jun 12: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Shootout
Jun 13: 12:00pm $5000 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 14: 5:00pm $3000 Stud H/L
Jun 15: 5:00pm $5000 H.O.R.S.E.
Jun 16: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 17: 12:00pm $3000 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 17: 5:00pm $1500 Razz (if out of other event)
Jun 18: 12:00pm $2500 No Limit Hold'em Short Handed
Jun 19: 1:00pm $5000 No Limit Hold'em Heads Up
Jun 20: 12:00pm $1500 Pot Limit Omaha (RB's)
Jun 20: 5:00pm $3000 Limit Hold'em
Jun 21: 5:00pm $5000 Omaha H/L
Jun 22: DAY OFF
Jun 23: DAY OFF
Jun 24: 12:00pm $50,000 H.O.R.S.E.
Jun 25: Still in H.O.R.S.E.
Jun 26: 12:00pm $2000 Limit Hold'em
Jun 27: 12:00pm $2000 Omaha HL
Jun 28: 12:00pm $5000 No Limit Hold'em Short Handed
Jun 29: 12:00pm $2000 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 29: 5:00pm $1000 2-7 Triple Draw (RB's) (If out of other event)
Jun 30: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Hold'em
Jul 1: 12:00pm $10,000 Pot Limit Omaha
Jul 2: 12:00pm $1000 No Limit Hold'em (RB's)
Jul 3: 12:00pm $1000 Limit Hold'em Shootout
Jul 4: 12:00pm $5000 2-7 Single Draw No Limit
Jul 5: DAY OFF
Jul 6: DAY OFF
Jul 7: DAY OFF
Jul 8: $10,000 No Limit Hold'em Main Event

by **The Red Tornado** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:30:56

Laexile wrote:Holding A:h: J:d: and the table has J:h: 6:h: 3:h: 7:c:. Player on right bets $2. I call. Player to left raises to round limit of $10. Call or fold?

Need more info-

tourney or cash?

blinds and stack values

position

money in pot

by **Woody** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:37:47

The Red Tornado wrote:They monitor to see if certain people are always playing at the same table to help cut down on that.

Is there any proof of that or instances where others have been caught doing such a thing? What happened to them? What is the worst punishment the sites could inflict? Could they do anything other than deleting your account? And besides, what's to prove that there was something underhanded going on? They can't just stop a group of friends from all wanting to play against one another online, can they? It's not like the site loses money b/c of it

This are all hypothetical questions, mind you.

by **The Red Tornado** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:41:19

Woody wrote:
The Red Tornado wrote:They monitor to see if certain people are always playing at the same table to help cut down on that.

Is there any proof of that or instances where others have been caught doing such a thing? What happened to them? What is the worst punishment the sites could inflict? Could they do anything other than deleting your account? And besides, what's to prove that there was something underhanded going on? They can't just stop a group of friends from all wanting to play against one another online, can they? It's not like the site loses money b/c of it

This are all hypothetical questions, mind you.

The fulltilt forum addresses your specific questions, but since theyre a business and dont want the reputation of allowing cheaters on the site they are doing everything they can to prevent collusion, Im sure they shut down any accounts after a warning of those who are abusing it. Collusion is hard thing to do, you have to get a group of guys who know what theyre doing.

by **seke2** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:47:48

Woody wrote:Is there any proof of that or instances where others have been caught doing such a thing? What happened to them? What is the worst punishment the sites could inflict? Could they do anything other than deleting your account? And besides, what's to prove that there was something underhanded going on? They can't just stop a group of friends from all wanting to play against one another online, can they? It's not like the site loses money b/c of it

This are all hypothetical questions, mind you.

Proof: Yes, many times when these things have happened people have posted the emails from the customer service people who dealt with the issues.

What happened: Various things have happened. Some people have had their money seized by the site, including one very notable player (ZeeJustin) who had well over 100k seized from his account after it was discovered he was playing multiple accounts in the same tournament. Most sites have similar policies in their T&C so yes, they can take your money if you are caught cheating. They can also ban your account, suspend your account, etc.

How to prove something underhanded going on: They can review the hand histories, chat logs from the table, as well as histories for the player and what other people they've played with in the past. If there is clear evidence of collusion in terms of various players raising/folding/calling in manners that make no sense and clearly appear to be targetting another player or funnel chips to a particular person, that may be considered adequate evidence to take action against the players involved.

The reality is that you could probably get away with doing this 1 time without much risk of being caught assuming you and your friends all had a long history of playing on the site (so its obv the accounts weren't just created for this scam), did not have a lot of history of playing on the same tables (so it doesn't seem like you colluded in the past), had money in your accounts that would make your buyin level seem appropriate (so if you all had exactly 1k in your accounts before this in case you got caught/had the money seized, it would obv look fishy if you were reported), and did not play grossly out of line to target the one other dude. However, if you tried to pull this again and were caught, most likely they'd take action including seizing the money and possibly retroactively changing the results of the tournament where you did get away with it.

by **pacino** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:48:42

wasn't our very own milty shut down?

by **seke2** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:49:15

Laexile wrote:Holding AH JD and the table has JH 6H 3H 7C. Player on right bets $2. I call. Player to left raises to round limit of $10. Call or fold?

I'm guessing call, almost regardless of the pot size or any other factors. But yeah, pot size matters here.

by **seke2** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:50:07

Irish Car Bomb wrote:
The Red Tornado wrote:WSOP starts today!!

Woohoo!!

The big fad be a big fade?

I recommend checking cardplayer.com for updates and coverage, it's an excellent site.

NEGREANU's "schedule" for the WSOP (must be nice:

Jun 1: 12:00pm $5000 No Limit/Limit Hold'em
Jun 2: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 3: 5:00pm $2500 Omaha HL/Stud HL
Jun 4: 5:00pm $5000 Pot Limit Omaha (RB's)
Jun 5:12:00pm $1000 No Limit Hold'em (RB's)
Jun 5: 5:00pm $1500 Omaha HL (if out of other event)
Jun 6: 5:00pm $5000 7 Card Stud
Jun 7: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Hold'em Short Handed
Jun 8: 5:00pm $5000 Pot Limit Hold'em
Jun 9: 5:00pm $2500 H.O.R.S.E.
Jun 10: 5:00pm $5000 Limit Hold'em
Jun 11: 12:00pm $2500 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 11: 5:00pm $2000 Stud H/L (if out of other event)
Jun 12: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Shootout
Jun 13: 12:00pm $5000 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 14: 5:00pm $3000 Stud H/L
Jun 15: 5:00pm $5000 H.O.R.S.E.
Jun 16: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 17: 12:00pm $3000 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 17: 5:00pm $1500 Razz (if out of other event)
Jun 18: 12:00pm $2500 No Limit Hold'em Short Handed
Jun 19: 1:00pm $5000 No Limit Hold'em Heads Up
Jun 20: 12:00pm $1500 Pot Limit Omaha (RB's)
Jun 20: 5:00pm $3000 Limit Hold'em
Jun 21: 5:00pm $5000 Omaha H/L
Jun 22: DAY OFF
Jun 23: DAY OFF
Jun 24: 12:00pm $50,000 H.O.R.S.E.
Jun 25: Still in H.O.R.S.E.
Jun 26: 12:00pm $2000 Limit Hold'em
Jun 27: 12:00pm $2000 Omaha HL
Jun 28: 12:00pm $5000 No Limit Hold'em Short Handed
Jun 29: 12:00pm $2000 No Limit Hold'em
Jun 29: 5:00pm $1000 2-7 Triple Draw (RB's) (If out of other event)
Jun 30: 12:00pm $1500 No Limit Hold'em
Jul 1: 12:00pm $10,000 Pot Limit Omaha
Jul 2: 12:00pm $1000 No Limit Hold'em (RB's)
Jul 3: 12:00pm $1000 Limit Hold'em Shootout
Jul 4: 12:00pm $5000 2-7 Single Draw No Limit
Jul 5: DAY OFF
Jul 6: DAY OFF
Jul 7: DAY OFF
Jul 8: $10,000 No Limit Hold'em Main Event

How could this be any 1 player's schedule, if he got to the 2nd day in any tournament he'd be playing multiple tournaments at the same time?

by **Woody** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:57:52

How's it hard to do? If 5 dudes repeatedly joined $1000 6-handed SnGs and waited for a 6th player, aren't they virtually guaranteed a long run profit?

Edit: just read seke's reply. But wouldn't you still stand to profit long-term just by playing straight up? It's not like you'd have to dump chips or all be on the phone during the thing.

by **The Red Tornado** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:58:35

seke2 wrote:How could this be any 1 player's schedule, if he got to the 2nd day in any tournament he'd be playing multiple tournaments at the same time?

some pros will sign up for tournies knowing that they are likely to be knocked out in the previous day's tourney. If they are doing well then they dont play in the new tourney or just play a few hands during breaks or periods that they can go between tables.

by **Laexile** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:59:38

The Red Tornado wrote:
Laexile wrote:Holding A:h: J:d: and the table has J:h: 6:h: 3:h: 7:c:. Player on right bets $2. I call. Player to left raises to round limit of $10. Call or fold?

Need more info-

tourney or cash? Friendly monthly cash game

blinds and stack values - 25 and 50 cent blinds. By stack values, do you mean stack size for each player? That's irrelevant since it's a friendly game with rebuys.

position Second of three

money in pot Probably around $30-$35 after he puts $10 in

by **The Red Tornado** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 16:00:04

seke2 wrote:
Laexile wrote:Holding AH JD and the table has JH 6H 3H 7C. Player on right bets $2. I call. Player to left raises to round limit of $10. Call or fold?

I'm guessing call, almost regardless of the pot size or any other factors. But yeah, pot size matters here.

Im guessing call also just because if theres a cap at 10 bucks, that's a hand that's worth playing. Top pair top kicker, nut flush draw.

by **The Red Tornado** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 16:00:52

Laexile wrote:
money in pot Probably around $30-$35 after he puts $10 in

Then definitely call.

by **Laexile** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 16:06:05

I did, even knowing that he probably a better hand. A :h:

came on the River and it turned out he K :h:

8

and the other guy had the Q :h:

. K

8

was disappointed I didn't fold, but with the pot size and my hand I had to roll with it. Because all three bet round limit on the River, the final take on the hand ended up being around $75. I played very few hands due to bad cards, but finished way up as a result.

The flop had 2 :h:

, not three. He made his flush then and couldn't get me or the other guy to fold.

by **seke2** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 16:09:26

Laexile wrote:I did, even knowing that he probably a better hand. A :h came on the River and it turned out he K:H 8:H and the other guy had the Q:H. K:H 8:H was disappointed I didn't fold, but with the pot size and my hand I had to roll with it. Because all three bet round limit on the River, the final take on the hand ended up being around $75. I played very few hands due to bad cards, but finished way up as a result.

Uh, wait. The Ah was in your hand? I'm confused.

You also didn't mention it was a 3-way pot, which is another crucial factor that swings it even further to a call.

Assuming it's a capped $10 on the turn in a 3-way pot, that's a pretty easy call even if you know you are behind.

by **seke2** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 16:10:16

The Red Tornado wrote:
seke2 wrote:How could this be any 1 player's schedule, if he got to the 2nd day in any tournament he'd be playing multiple tournaments at the same time?

some pros will sign up for tournies knowing that they are likely to be knocked out in the previous day's tourney. If they are doing well then they dont play in the new tourney or just play a few hands during breaks or periods that they can go between tables.

I guess. Or they could not register for the next tournament until they bust out the previous one. I heard a few people were in these sort of spots last year, to me it just seems like horrible money management.

by **The Red Tornado** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 16:10:21

Laexile wrote:I did, even knowing that he probably a better hand. A came on the River and it turned out he K 8 and the other guy had the Q . K 8 was disappointed I didn't fold, but with the pot size and my hand I had to roll with it. Because all three bet round limit on the River, the final take on the hand ended up being around $75. I played very few hands due to bad cards, but finished way up as a result.

The flop had 2 , not three. He made his flush then and couldn't get me or the other guy to fold.

How could the river be the A :h:

when you had the A :h:

? Cheating?

by **Woody** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 16:11:40

LA forgot to mention they were playing with a 7-deck shoe.

by **The Red Tornado** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 16:12:40

seke2 wrote:
The Red Tornado wrote:
seke2 wrote:How could this be any 1 player's schedule, if he got to the 2nd day in any tournament he'd be playing multiple tournaments at the same time?

some pros will sign up for tournies knowing that they are likely to be knocked out in the previous day's tourney. If they are doing well then they dont play in the new tourney or just play a few hands during breaks or periods that they can go between tables.

I guess. Or they could not register for the next tournament until they bust out the previous one. I heard a few people were in these sort of spots last year, to me it just seems like horrible money management.

You honestly think most of the pros have good money management?! Most of them are nuts and degenerate gamblers.

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