MoBettle wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:McCutchen, at least as far as the lineup, is a cop out. There was a regular on the roster who proved he can handle the lead-off spot. Cesar struggled after the broken foot last year but there's every reason to expect an OBP similar to what Cutch provided.

My impression is this staff uses sample sizes that are too small in their decision making.

Cesar has been disappointing too (on top of Herrera’s stuff and Franco being bad) but Cutch getting hurt sort of opened the flood gates in terms of guys that don’t belong in the majors like Williams and Quinn getting regular starts. Especially when guys like Bruce and Haseley got hurt themselves.

I guess it’s sort of a combination of everything though. If any of Cesar/Odubel/Franco have a career year or even just their best past season Cutch isn’t as big of a loss.

I'll disagree with you on Quinn. He's absolutely a regular for someone IF he can stay healthy.

Most of it comes down to handling for me. There's a quick hook for some and undue patience with others.

Going back to last year Franco gets benched quickly when he slumps. Over multiple seasons Cesar posted a .370+ OBP from the lead-off spot yet received limited chances this year. With all the development time he's lost, sporadic starts are probably the worst thing for Quinn. These 3 (and others) were not provided enough patience. I can't help but think some of it is because they're not created in Gabe's image.

I wasn't paying attention and missed that Haseley was sent down. Who the fuck is running the front office? Mr. Met?

Uncle Milty wrote:

MoBettle wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:McCutchen, at least as far as the lineup, is a cop out. There was a regular on the roster who proved he can handle the lead-off spot. Cesar struggled after the broken foot last year but there's every reason to expect an OBP similar to what Cutch provided.

My impression is this staff uses sample sizes that are too small in their decision making.

Cesar has been disappointing too (on top of Herrera’s stuff and Franco being bad) but Cutch getting hurt sort of opened the flood gates in terms of guys that don’t belong in the majors like Williams and Quinn getting regular starts. Especially when guys like Bruce and Haseley got hurt themselves.

I guess it’s sort of a combination of everything though. If any of Cesar/Odubel/Franco have a career year or even just their best past season Cutch isn’t as big of a loss.

I'll disagree with you on Quinn. He's absolutely a regular for someone IF he can stay healthy.

Most of it comes down to handling for me. There's a quick hook for some and undue patience with others.

Going back to last year Franco gets benched quickly when he slumps. Over multiple seasons Cesar posted a .370+ OBP from the lead-off spot yet received limited chances this year. With all the development time he's lost, sporadic starts are probably the worst thing for Quinn. These 3 (and others) were not provided enough patience. I can't help but think some of it is because they're not created in Gabe's image.

Wait.
Not enough patience on Maik? He's had enough MLB at bats that you know what he has at this point sans any Bautista breakout or Brady Anderson diet. That was true enough last year as well. Cesar, I won't disagree, have been a bit surprised to not see him up higher in the lineup. Although to be fair, his baserunning gaffes might make a manager hesitant to put him higher. Quinn, you can argue he's sitting BECAUSE he's constantly been injured. I don't think any of it has to do with whether they're in Gabe's "image" or not.

BatFlipsFTW wrote:

GrizzledVeteran wrote:

stevemc wrote:

ek wrote:I mean Rodriguez is ok but gimme a break

He is not OK. He stinks. Kapler values these versatile players and I guess Hernandez needs a night off but I disagree with the Haseley move. DFA Rodriguez, put Kingery at 3B everyday and you have Brad Miller as your utility guy. Rodriguez doesn't add value. At this point, Haseley will learn just as much if not more by hanging around the big club and getting MLB experience. They are repeating last year's mistakes with veteran acquisitions mid to late season that stunt the growth of the youth and ultimately don't provide the results.

I'll do one better. Release Rodriguez and bring up Alec Bohm. Make Cesar the utility guy and put Kingery at 2B. Quinn is due to get hurt and Haseley comes up. Here's your lineup:
CF - Adam Haseley
SS- Jean Segura
RF - Bryce Harper
1B - Rhys Hoskins
LF - Jay Bruce/Corey Dickerson
C - JT Realmuto
2B - Scott Kingery
3B - Alec Bohm

At this point, there's nothing to lose.

Might as well.

I thought everyone loved the Dickerson move, which in turn made me think he was young. He’s 30.

He is young!

But not in baseball world

kruker wrote:I haven't been a big Gabe supporter or detractor, but I'm fully on board with ditching him. Bring me Showalter. Hell, bring me Baker, just don't let him have Nola go more than 100 pitches.

Yeah, it’s not like I hate Kapler, but I don’t like him either, so I’d probably talk to some clubhouse leaders. If they say it’s time for a change, then it’s time for a change.

BatFlipsFTW wrote:

GrizzledVeteran wrote:

stevemc wrote:

ek wrote:I mean Rodriguez is ok but gimme a break

He is not OK. He stinks. Kapler values these versatile players and I guess Hernandez needs a night off but I disagree with the Haseley move. DFA Rodriguez, put Kingery at 3B everyday and you have Brad Miller as your utility guy. Rodriguez doesn't add value. At this point, Haseley will learn just as much if not more by hanging around the big club and getting MLB experience. They are repeating last year's mistakes with veteran acquisitions mid to late season that stunt the growth of the youth and ultimately don't provide the results.

I'll do one better. Release Rodriguez and bring up Alec Bohm. Make Cesar the utility guy and put Kingery at 2B. Quinn is due to get hurt and Haseley comes up. Here's your lineup:
CF - Adam Haseley
SS- Jean Segura
RF - Bryce Harper
1B - Rhys Hoskins
LF - Jay Bruce/Corey Dickerson
C - JT Realmuto
2B - Scott Kingery
3B - Alec Bohm

At this point, there's nothing to lose.

Might as well.

So, the same lineup as now, except we're going to preemptively injure Quinn, and instead of Kingery adjusting to third base we're going to put the guy who's been learning the position at AA (making an error on one out of ten chances) and slugging at .338 clip away from Reading.

Might as well.

Cesar traded walks for weak out of zone contact for some reason. They missed the boat not selling him two years ago.

swishnicholson wrote:

BatFlipsFTW wrote:

GrizzledVeteran wrote:

stevemc wrote:

ek wrote:I mean Rodriguez is ok but gimme a break

He is not OK. He stinks. Kapler values these versatile players and I guess Hernandez needs a night off but I disagree with the Haseley move. DFA Rodriguez, put Kingery at 3B everyday and you have Brad Miller as your utility guy. Rodriguez doesn't add value. At this point, Haseley will learn just as much if not more by hanging around the big club and getting MLB experience. They are repeating last year's mistakes with veteran acquisitions mid to late season that stunt the growth of the youth and ultimately don't provide the results.

I'll do one better. Release Rodriguez and bring up Alec Bohm. Make Cesar the utility guy and put Kingery at 2B. Quinn is due to get hurt and Haseley comes up. Here's your lineup:
CF - Adam Haseley
SS- Jean Segura
RF - Bryce Harper
1B - Rhys Hoskins
LF - Jay Bruce/Corey Dickerson
C - JT Realmuto
2B - Scott Kingery
3B - Alec Bohm

At this point, there's nothing to lose.

Might as well.

So, the same lineup as now, except we're going to preemptively injure Quinn, and instead of Kingery adjusting to third base we're going to put the guy who's been learning the position at AA (making an error on one out of ten chances) and slugging at .338 clip away from Reading.

Might as well.

Well that was rather rude. Shame on you.

At least that has guys playing in positions they've been projected for and not whatever the Wheel O'Fielding lands on that day.

kruker wrote:I haven't been a big Gabe supporter or detractor, but I'm fully on board with ditching him. Bring me Showalter. Hell, bring me Baker, just don't let him have Nola go more than 100 pitches.

And the reason I keep defending Gapler shows its head again. I can't for the life of me see why anyone would want Showalter. And Baker? JFC

philliesphhan wrote:

kruker wrote:I haven't been a big Gabe supporter or detractor, but I'm fully on board with ditching him. Bring me Showalter. Hell, bring me Baker, just don't let him have Nola go more than 100 pitches.

And the reason I keep defending Gapler shows its head again. I can't for the life of me see why anyone would want Showalter. And Baker? JFC

We've had to suffer through Kapler for a whole YEAR AND A HALF, clearly he's proven that he's never going to get it done. When you can pick between guys with a combined 42 years of major league managing experience for eight different major league teams and zero championships between them, who could pass that up?

And yeah, hire Dusty Baker and tell him not to do the one thing that Dusty Baker is doing at every stop of his major league career, surely the fifth time will be the charm.

ReadingPhilly wrote:Cesar traded walks for weak out of zone contact for some reason. They missed the boat not selling him two years ago.

that happened when they moved him out of the leadoff spot. they wanted him to be more aggressive. straight from the horse's mouth.

he used to be 2nd in the league in walks and/or OBP, behind the nats' RF last year. his nickname was Señor OBP.

philliesphhan wrote:

kruker wrote:I haven't been a big Gabe supporter or detractor, but I'm fully on board with ditching him. Bring me Showalter. Hell, bring me Baker, just don't let him have Nola go more than 100 pitches.

And the reason I keep defending Gapler shows its head again. I can't for the life of me see why anyone would want Showalter. And Baker? JFC

Yea so I'm being a bit hyperbolic with the Baker thing. Showalter, I'm on board. But really, something is wrong here. Granted I'm a bit pissy from the last few games, but Gabe ain't exactly endearing. If we can't make big improvements with the roster in the off-season, which I don't think we can, but hey prove me wrong, I'm willing to ditch Gabe for someone else to see if that does anything. Can't see us underperforming much more than we are this year.

Scioscia is still out there and waiting for a call

BigEd76 wrote:Scioscia is still out there and waiting for a call

really? i thought he retired. no? why is he still available

Jay Bruce back on the DL with a strained elbow. I didn't even know he came back lol.

Haseley back and starting tonight

Unreal. Walking dead

haseley's frequent flyer account is probably as sexy as his dark eyes

kruker wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:

MoBettle wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:McCutchen, at least as far as the lineup, is a cop out. There was a regular on the roster who proved he can handle the lead-off spot. Cesar struggled after the broken foot last year but there's every reason to expect an OBP similar to what Cutch provided.

My impression is this staff uses sample sizes that are too small in their decision making.

Cesar has been disappointing too (on top of Herrera’s stuff and Franco being bad) but Cutch getting hurt sort of opened the flood gates in terms of guys that don’t belong in the majors like Williams and Quinn getting regular starts. Especially when guys like Bruce and Haseley got hurt themselves.

I guess it’s sort of a combination of everything though. If any of Cesar/Odubel/Franco have a career year or even just their best past season Cutch isn’t as big of a loss.

I'll disagree with you on Quinn. He's absolutely a regular for someone IF he can stay healthy.

Most of it comes down to handling for me. There's a quick hook for some and undue patience with others.

Going back to last year Franco gets benched quickly when he slumps. Over multiple seasons Cesar posted a .370+ OBP from the lead-off spot yet received limited chances this year. With all the development time he's lost, sporadic starts are probably the worst thing for Quinn. These 3 (and others) were not provided enough patience. I can't help but think some of it is because they're not created in Gabe's image.

Wait.
Not enough patience on Maik? He's had enough MLB at bats that you know what he has at this point sans any Bautista breakout or Brady Anderson diet. That was true enough last year as well. Cesar, I won't disagree, have been a bit surprised to not see him up higher in the lineup. Although to be fair, his baserunning gaffes might make a manager hesitant to put him higher. Quinn, you can argue he's sitting BECAUSE he's constantly been injured. I don't think any of it has to do with whether they're in Gabe's "image" or not.

Yes, Maik's had a lot of ABs but that's not what I mean.

I guess first you'd have to believe, like I do, that these guys need consistent playing time to be their best. You have to face live pitching to
hit live pitching.

When Maik starts to slump, like all players do, he seems to lose starts much sooner than others. (I had some numbers on it last year but I'm not going thru game logs again.) I think it was a misstep to keep him mostly buried in the 8 hole this year when he was tearing the cover off the ball. There's no way opponents were going to let the 8 hitter keep beating them.

The thing that surprised me the most about Franco getting demoted was the amount of Phillies fans that think he's an every day starting MLB player.