Braves released Joey bats.

I think Omar Vizquel is the best defensive shortstop of all time. He also learned to hit pretty well.

ReadingPhilly wrote:Braves released Joey bats.

Odor punching him in the face is one of my favorite moments in baseball ever.

WilliamC wrote:I think Omar Vizquel is the best defensive shortstop of all time. He also learned to hit pretty well.

Did you see a lot of both Omar and Ozzie playing? What makes you think Vizquel was better?

I found this from baseball history author Ben Feldman:

"Omar Vizquel. Vizquel is absolutely not a candidate for Top 10 all time status, and I included him in the discussion mainly to illustrate the point that, comparisons between Vizquel and Ozzie Smith are entirely unfounded. Vizquel has saved 99 runs above average in his career, this is a fantastic total. He has also been 155 runs below average at the plate, (it is easy to forget, given his late '90's offensive contributions, that he was once labeled "Omar the outmaker").

Ozzie Smith was 33 runs above average at bat. This is not so impressive, but is, as you can easily figure out, 188 runs more than what Vizquel was able to produce. Ozzie stole more bases (by far), and did so with a much better success rate. Ozzie drew more walks, and produced a similar batting line in an era of much lighter offense.

Defensively, he saved an astonishing 268 runs over the average shortstop. This is an earth-shattering figure, and it absolutely blows Vizquel out of the water. Saying that Vizquel is comparable to Ozzie Smith is like saying Eddie Murray is just as good as Lou Gehrig."

Well I feel stupid.

I only really seen Ozzie when he was really old. Vizquel I watch when he was 40 and he didn't let anything by. He was a better hitter than Ozzie.

Must watch!

Slowhand wrote:Must watch!

I totally watched these videos as a kid

A lot of tension between Ozzie and that dickhead kid

WilliamC wrote:Well I feel stupid.

I only really seen Ozzie when he was really old. Vizquel I watch when he was 40 and he didn't let anything by. He was a better hitter than Ozzie.

he wasn't that either

WilliamC wrote:Well I feel stupid.

I only really seen Ozzie when he was really old. Vizquel I watch when he was 40 and he didn't let anything by. He was a better hitter than Ozzie.

i wouldn't feel stupid. I watched a lot of Omar when he was with the Indians and he was fantastic, definitely the best defensive shortstop I ever saw play regularly. Certainly can accept that Ozzie Smith was better, that's hardly an outrageous take, though I don't think defensive metrics have been refined to the level of offensive ones even now, and certainly not from back three or four decades, so I'm not entirely ready to accept the vast difference in runs saved. I also agree that the position was very different when played mostly on turf, though i couldn't say to whose advantage that points.

Ozzie's flying double plays over the bag are one of the most beautiful things the game has ever seen. Don't think there's been anyone like that since him.

And would add, in football people used to say that Favre was playing like he was in the backyard. That's what Ozzie's SS play looked like. Weird throws that only he could make. Crazy athleticism, instincts, smarts and cajones to make plays no one else could.

Been thinking about this for a while, and yesterday after watching Jordan Hicks throw multiple pitches over 100 MPH, including two at 105 MPH apparently, figured I’d bring this up.

How are so many more pitchers now throwing so damn hard? It wasn’t very long ago where we might see one or two guys in all of baseball who could touch 100 MPH from time to time. Maybe. Over the past couple season now, though, it seems like just about every team has a guy who can do it consistently, and a few other guys in the pen who are throwing 97 - 98 like it’s no big deal. It used to be the flame throwers were guys hitting 96-97.

Where did this come from? Has there been some new development in pitching mechanics or training that allows players to add another 5 MPH or so to their fastball? Are the radar guns hot on some pitchers just to give something for fans to ooh and ah about? Have pitchers always been able to do it, but have been holding back til now? STEROIDS? What gives?

they're not told to conserve their energy and there's better workout regimens. people are also simply larger.

they used to say the gun was 'juiced' for Billy Wagner, right? But that was 99, 100....105 is crazy. When I saw that yesterday I thought maybe they were accidentally reading the speed of the foul ball. I can't imagine how much that hurts to catch or how scary it must be as the umpire - especially since these guys are usually wild on top of being hard throwers.

Kids are taught at the club level and above about velocity being king. Letting it go...etc. That's why there's also been a corresponding jump in kids as young as 13 getting TJ surgery.

Slowhand wrote:Where did this come from? Has there been some new development in pitching mechanics or training that allows players to add another 5 MPH or so to their fastball? Are the radar guns hot on some pitchers just to give something for fans to ooh and ah about? Have pitchers always been able to do it, but have been holding back til now? STEROIDS? What gives?

Yes. Driveline mechanics is one of the more well-known pitching mechanics companies, but there is just so much good coaching/video available out there to enable people to squeeze an extra mph or two from their body.

Plus, the selection for pitchers with this ability makes it likely to continue to perpetuate.

My question about the 105mph pitches yesterday is: it's a 5-1 game in the bottom of the ninth, in one instance (if memory serves) with two out and nobody on base.

Why on earth are you throwing 105mph? Will that memory be worth it when your career is over at 26?

On other MLB news, not that's it's news by now (since most have heard it I assume), but the Yankees / Red Sox in London?!?! Usually such stunts bore me but honestly that sounds like appointment television for me in 2019. Very cool to see MLB baseball overseas.

Wolfgang622 wrote:My question about the 105mph pitches yesterday is: it's a 5-1 game in the bottom of the ninth, in one instance (if memory serves) with two out and nobody on base.

Why on earth are you throwing 105mph? Will that memory be worth it when your career is over at 26?

He said he was amped up waiting for Odubel, because he was taking so much time between pitches. Seriously.

For a guy that throws 105, he gets very few Ks. And his pitches move, too. Amazing the players hit them fair.