Doll Is Mine wrote:

drsmooth wrote:DiM, post a link to the results page, please - the ministry's site is ... unhelpful.

Yeah, it's a pain in the ass. I'm getting the results from Twitter.

drsmooth wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:I feel pretty good on my knowledge of what the word insinuation means.

Do you think the voters who voted Yes did so because they like austerity? Of course not. They voted Yes because they like the Euro and fear the uncertainty that would come from voting No. The future of Greece in the Eurozone was a major part of the referendum. Why you're minimizing it, I have no idea.

I'm not minimizing it. I'm pointing out that the assertion that a no vote definitively means the end of Euro for Greece is a favorite of Martin Schulz, ***EDIT - ye gods, internet - European parliament president***, and, apparently, you. And not really all that many other people, including many, many Greeks. Otherwise, 1.5 of 5 Greeks know less about how they feel the vote ramifies on them than you and Martin Schulz

To put it another way, in the off-chance that you're still flummoxed, 4 of 5 greeks like the Euro, and yet half of Greeks have expressed an inclination to vote no in their referendum. So a goodly portion of "Euro likers" - about 37% - are still inclined to vote no. They probably have some notion that their no vote doesn't mean the end of their Euro involvement.

You may have another interpretation, and of course are welcome to it.

Alexis Tsipras ‏@tsipras_eu
Today's referendum doesn't have winners or losers. It is a great victory, in and of itself. Even in the most difficult circumstances, democracy can't be blackmailed—it is a dominant value and the way forward. I want to thank each and every one of you. Regardless of how you voted, tonight we are all one. The mandate you've given me does not call for a break with Europe, but rather gives me greater negotiating strength. We know that there are no easy solutions. But there are just solutions, viable solutions. As long there's willingness on both sides. The Greek people made a historic and brave choice. Their response will alter the existing dialogue in Europe. #Greece #Greferendum

jerseyhoya wrote:

drsmooth wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:I feel pretty good on my knowledge of what the word insinuation means.

Do you think the voters who voted Yes did so because they like austerity? Of course not. They voted Yes because they like the Euro and fear the uncertainty that would come from voting No. The future of Greece in the Eurozone was a major part of the referendum. Why you're minimizing it, I have no idea.

I'm not minimizing it. I'm pointing out that the assertion that a no vote definitively means the end of Euro for Greece is a favorite of Martin Schulz, ***EDIT - ye gods, internet - European parliament president***, and, apparently, you. And not really all that many other people, including many, many Greeks. Otherwise, 1.5 of 5 Greeks know less about how they feel the vote ramifies on them than you and Martin Schulz

To put it another way, in the off-chance that you're still flummoxed, 4 of 5 greeks like the Euro, and yet half of Greeks have expressed an inclination to vote no in their referendum. So a goodly portion of "Euro likers" - about 37% - are still inclined to vote no. They probably have some notion that their no vote doesn't mean the end of their Euro involvement.

You may have another interpretation, and of course are welcome to it.

You are very special if you've taken from my posts that I'm arguing a No vote definitively means the end of the Euro for Greece. Or that I'm flummoxed why most Greeks want to stay in the Euro but have still voted No.

You're either PtK'ing this thread and not reading the posts you're ostensibly replying to or willfully misrepresenting what I'm saying in order to strengthen your argument.

pacino wrote:I'm not sure how this gives him more bargaining power.

jerseyhoya wrote:Varoufakis, Greek Marxist finance minster who was hated by most of the major Euro players, resigns unexpectedly.

Possible getting rid of him widens the possibilities of some sort of an accord that is palatable to both parties. Maybe symbolic fig leafs are allowed in both directions, and austerity continues (with some debt forgiveness), and Eurozone membership is maintained.

Minister No More!
Posted on July 6, 2015 by yanisv

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning.

jerseyhoya wrote:Varoufakis, Greek Marxist finance minster who was hated by most of the major Euro players, resigns unexpectedly.

Possible getting rid of him widens the possibilities of some sort of an accord that is palatable to both parties. Maybe symbolic fig leafs are allowed in both directions, and austerity continues (with some debt forgiveness), and Eurozone membership is maintained.