Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Roger Dorn » Wed Nov 20, 2013 09:19:51

Are we still calling it "Operation Enduring Freedom"? Does anyone else remember that bullshit from the Bush Administration when they were coining these elementary slogans? I think it started off as Operation Infinite Justice but religious groups got pissy so they changed it...this was followed in short order by Freedom Fries to really stick it to the French for opposing such a great mission in Iraq...I never cease to be embarrassed by the Bush years

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Wed Nov 20, 2013 09:25:00

i have ptsd from that administration. Richard Engel received info on the pending agreement (yet to be decided upon fully) about an enduring presence in Afghanistan. I know it's been suggested previously we would continue to provide training help, but I kinda hoped we wouldn't. Ugh:

The 25-page “Security and Defense Cooperation Agreement Between the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” is a sweeping document, vague in places, highly specific in others, defining everything from the types of future missions U.S. troops would be allowed to conduct in Afghanistan, to the use of radios and the taxation of American soldiers and contractors.

The bilateral security agreement will be debated this week in Kabul by around 2,500 village elders, academics and officials in a traditional Loya Jirga. While the Loya Jirga is strictly consultative, Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said he won’t sign it without the Jirga’s approval.

The copy of the draft -- the full text is available here -- is dated July 25, 2013. As a working draft, it is particularly revealing because it shows the back and forth negotiations, as U.S. and Afghan officials added words and struck out paragraphs. The changes are marked by annotations still revealed in the text. The document is a work in progress. US officials say there have been more changes since July. The draft, however, does indicate the scope of this possible agreement with major implications for Washington, Kabul, U.S. troops and the continuation of America’s longest war.

A U.S.-Afghan agreement could mean a longer stay for American forces in Afghanistan, which requests that about 15,000 soldiers remain for at least a decade. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Taken as a whole, the document describes a basic U.S.-Afghan exchange. Afghanistan would allow Washington to operate military bases to train Afghan forces and conduct counter-terrorism operations against al-Qaeda after the current mission ends in 2014. For that foothold in this volatile mountain region wedged between Pakistan and Iran, the United States would agree to sustain and equip Afghanistan's large security force, which the government in Kabul currently cannot afford. The deal, according to the text, would take effect on Jan. 1, 2015 and “shall remain in force until the end of 2024 and beyond.” It could be terminated by either Washington or Kabul with two years advance written notice.

There is however what U.S. officials believe is a contradiction in the July draft, which would effectively ask American troops to provide training and confront al-Qaeda from the confines of bases. While it says operations against al-Qaeda may be necessary, it also says US troops will not be allowed to make arrests or enter Afghan homes.

“No detention or arrest shall be carried out by the United States forces. The United States forces shall not search any homes or other real estate properties,” it says.

“[The contradiction] was a matter of serious consternation at the highest levels” of the Obama administration over the weekend, according to one senior defense official. “It is the one remaining issue that could ultimately kill the deal." However, US officials believe that in a more recent draft, which was circulated among key Pentagon officials and US lawmakers on Monday, the US has won its position on this point.

The document doesn’t specifically say how many U.S. and NATO troops would remain in Afghanistan beyond 2014. Afghan officials tell NBC News they hope it will be 10 to 15 thousand. U.S. officials tell NBC News the number is closer to seven to eight thousand, with an additional contribution from NATO. Factoring in troop rotations, home leave, and breaks between deployments, the service of tens of thousands of American troops would be required to maintain a force of seven to eight thousand for a decade or longer. The anticipated costs would likely run into the billions quickly.

Afghan officials tell NBC NEWS the agreement is critical to Afghanistan’s future stability. Without ongoing military assistance, training and funding, those officials say the government could collapse and Afghanistan would enter a civil war. If the agreement passes, the draft says Washington would commit to a long -term, indefinite military involvement in this land-locked Asian nation.

A spokesperson for the White House National Security Council did not comment on the draft version of the agreement, but said that "the President is still reviewing options from his national security team and has not made a decision about a possible U.S. presence after 2014."
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:45:32

Obama hits new low with Dems

President Obama’s relationship with congressional Democrats has worsened to an unprecedented low, Democratic aides say.

They are letting it be known that House and Senate Democrats are increasingly frustrated, bitter and angry with the White House over ObamaCare’s botched rollout, and that the president’s mea culpa in a news conference last week failed to soothe any ill will.

Sources who attended a meeting of House chiefs of staff on Monday say the room was seething with anger over the immense damage being done to the Democratic Party and talk was of scrapping rollout events for the Affordable Care Act.

“Here we are, we’re supposed to be selling this to people, and it’s all screwed up,” one chief of staff ranted. “This either gets fixed or this could be the demise of the Democratic Party.

“It’s probably the worst I’ve ever seen it,” the aide said of the recent mood on Capitol Hill. “It’s bad. It’s really bad.”

Meanwhile, at a recent caucus meeting with Senate Democrats and White House chief of staff Denis McDonough, one senator stood up and asked for a political point of contact at the White House.

“There’s been an increase in frustration because people feel like they are continuing to be blindsided,” said one Democrat who attended the caucus meeting, adding that there’s a “check-the-box” mentality at the White House in dealing with lawmakers.

Democrats around Capitol Hill say there are lots of people to blame for the debacle that has engulfed them. But increasingly the anger is directed at one person only: Obama.

“Is he even more unpopular than George W. Bush? I think that’s already happened,” said one Democratic chief of staff.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:52:12

Probably time to think of impeachment.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:56:04

So I do wonder how they will deal with the gay benefits thing. I remember when I first thought of moving to Europe, I did some research and was looking for a way to get approved for a work visa somewhere. One option was pretending to be gay and moving in with a man in Amsterdam (the Dutch laws were the most liberal at the time). People advertised that they would take people in and they got some tax benefits in return. You could get the benefits without actually being married, so it was a win-win for me and whoever I lived with. I didn't end up doing it, obviously, but it was an option.

I wonder if anything like that will happen here -- two friends who have known each other a long time, one in the military and one not, using the system to get some benefits for the non-military person.

/new excuse for Texas to make additional hoops
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:57:28

JFLNYC wrote:Probably time to think of impeachment.



or maybe just whip him and hope he learns a lesson.

The GOP should be proud that their lie campaign is actually making some headway.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:06:36

The GOP's lie campaign, aka the President's promises being exposed as lies and reality of the administration's failings on show for the country to see.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:10:58

lol

why even
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Bucky » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:13:31

it's not a lie if you believe it, Timmy.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:40:41

Monkeyboy wrote:So I do wonder how they will deal with the gay benefits thing. I remember when I first thought of moving to Europe, I did some research and was looking for a way to get approved for a work visa somewhere. One option was pretending to be gay and moving in with a man in Amsterdam (the Dutch laws were the most liberal at the time). People advertised that they would take people in and they got some tax benefits in return. You could get the benefits without actually being married, so it was a win-win for me and whoever I lived with. I didn't end up doing it, obviously, but it was an option.

I wonder if anything like that will happen here -- two friends who have known each other a long time, one in the military and one not, using the system to get some benefits for the non-military person.

/new excuse for Texas to make additional hoops

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Nov 20, 2013 13:44:26

Iraq wants US troops backs, sort of.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Wed Nov 20, 2013 13:44:48

Monkeyboy wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:Probably time to think of impeachment.



or maybe just whip him and hope he learns a lesson.

The GOP should be proud that their lie campaign is actually making some headway.

Are the Democratic House and Senators being fooled by GOP lies, and they have no reason to be annoyed with the President???

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Nov 20, 2013 16:30:55


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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Wed Nov 20, 2013 16:42:15

JFLNYC wrote:Probably time to think of impeachment.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 17:57:01

Werthless wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:Probably time to think of impeachment.



or maybe just whip him and hope he learns a lesson.

The GOP should be proud that their lie campaign is actually making some headway.

Are the Democratic House and Senators being fooled by GOP lies, and they have no reason to be annoyed with the President???



They are panicking because of the polls showing that the GOP BS machine is actually making headway with the selectively informed electorate. The test will come when they actually have to make a vote in the next round of attempts by the GOP to dismantle ACA. I'm hoping they learned something from the debt ceiling thing and stick together when it counts. At the moment, it's just talk.

And I do blame Obama for not selling his signature legislation enough. Of course, he probably figured that the votes to pass the law, the signing of the document, and the verification of the law by the SCOTUS meant that the law was safe from this nonsense. He was obviously wrong.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Nov 20, 2013 19:41:01

Marketing his initiatives is not an Obama strongsuit.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 19:59:22

jerseyhoya wrote:POLITICO ‏@politico
Rep. Trey Radel, a freshman Republican from Florida, was arrested on Oct. 29 for possession of cocaine in D.C. http://politi.co/1bZjysK

That's a good way to make sure you don't become a sophomore congressman


important update:

In September, Rep. Trey Radel voted for Republican legislation that would allow states to make food stamp recipients pee in cups to prove they're not on drugs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/1 ... mg00000037

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby dajafi » Wed Nov 20, 2013 20:23:07

I'm starting to get behind the idea of one six-year term for the president. The last second term that wasn't pretty much a total shit show was Eisenhower.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Youseff » Wed Nov 20, 2013 21:00:51

IM DUMB AND STUPID AND MY BUTT STINKS AND I LIKE TO SMELL MY OWN BUTT
Last edited by Youseff on Wed Nov 20, 2013 21:05:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Nov 20, 2013 21:04:12

I can't believe Youseff has td on ignore

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