Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby dajafi » Sun Nov 03, 2013 13:00:15

I like the piece a lot, but in terms of NYC she offers a heinous misread of what's actually happened here. It's the view of a Canadian who likely gets her news on NYC from their national radio. I think you're dead wrong about technocratic politics, and with respect you seem to have a received understanding of what's actually happened here. (For instance, there are fewer investment bankers here than was the case in the '90s--the financial industry has changed.) Your conflation of Robert Moses--empowered, by the way, under those political machines you hold in high regard, and whose political accomplishment per Caro was funneling money to them through his projects--with Bloombergism is a pretty blatant tell.

The greatest achievements of the Bloomberg administration were 1) raising the high school graduation rate by 20 points, improving the life prospects of hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers (and removing an incalculable strain on public budgets for expenses dropouts tend to incur that otherwise would have gone to policing, shelter, public assistance, etc); 2) refurbishing the infrastructure of the city--opening a new water tunnel, developing hundreds of miles of waterfront, greening on an unprecedented scale through PlaNYC and related laws; and 3) making NYC the world's most successful tourist destination, adding billions to our economy--which was partly made possible by the enormous gains in public safety (themselves driven by choices other than stop-and-frisk).

The smoking ban was great because it made it more fun for me to hang out in bars into my early 30s, and it maybe helped with #3. Nobody gives a shit about the calorie counts, and the bike lanes mostly functioned as a story that confirmed the biases of lazy culturally liberal reporters.

Where they suck is telling the story--the tone deafness I'll give you. Wanting to keep the marathon after Sandy, poo-poohing the public fury when they didn't clean up the snow in December 2010, saying in print that he wants more Russian billionaires, reaching almost Giuliani-esque levels of dickishness talking about stop-and-frisk. The guy's egomania and empathy deficit killed Chris Quinn's chances and opened the door for de Blasio's ideological campaign for a managerial position.

Voters here don't even understand how much better things have gotten over these last twelve years. But they will, when the liberal superhero gives so much away to what's left of those machines and city services start to falter. Already it's clear that he's hiring political loyalists rather than anyone with actual policy expertise or managerial acumen. The bad old days of the '80s we're going back to are less the crack and murder Dinkins period than the "City For Sale" days of the later Koch years.

TenuredVulture wrote:The problem is that technocratic politics doesn't work. Elites seem to think it does, despite repeated failures (and very few successes.)

Populist politics is ugly, but the old party machines, while corrupt, had every incentive to keep delivering effective services to constituents, and they had every incentive to pay attention to what their constituents actually said they needed, rather than assume they knew what was needed and how to deliver it.

I mean, consider this quote:

In City Hall, Mr. Bloomberg’s greatest achievements were technocratic triumphs — restricting smoking in public places, posting calorie counts and championing biking.


But he's absolutely tone deaf to the problems of housing costs and the way that's fundamentally transformed NYC. He seems quite content to allow NYC to transform to a city full of nothing other than investment bankers and tourists. I mean, consider how much the elite driven (and I realize it's a special case but the lack of democratic responsiveness is relevant I think) Robert Moses projects transformed NYC into a city that really didn't work for most of its residents, and those who had the means fled to the suburbs.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Sun Nov 03, 2013 14:37:44

I'm hoping the digression on the special case of NYC doesn't derail further comment on the splendid-for-conversation-starting piece dajafi's posted

NYC is a special case - it's always a special case - but the larger political dilemma the author highlights is special to everyone everywhere. When you have no genuine middle, can you have more than top-down 'politics' of any recognizable, let alone appealing, sort? And what will a middle even consist of in future less & less reliant on a broad cadre of, essentially, "overcompensated" (in the coldblooded techno-economic scheme of things) & curiously under-interconnected wetware information processors?

And this is not to denigrate the digression - it's a nice digression
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Sun Nov 03, 2013 15:11:44

speaking of the irrelevance of plutocracy, whyzit Mitt's getting so much facetime on the "news" channels this weekend other than that his name's on the MA plan that Barry's been cozying up to? Who is it he or his ideas are relevant to now, other than the guys building his new horse-elevator-equipped house?

(it is horse elevators, right? or is it a garage for his horses' cars? Still haven't got that straight)
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby cshort » Sun Nov 03, 2013 17:38:46

It's two things - Obama bringing him up, and the book "Double Down". They're asking him what he thinks of Christie because of some of the items in the book that happened during the VP vetting. At least that was David Gregory's interest.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Sun Nov 03, 2013 19:17:27

cshort wrote:It's two things - Obama bringing him up, and the book "Double Down". They're asking him what he thinks of Christie because of some of the items in the book that happened during the VP vetting. At least that was David Gregory's interest.


Gregory's not very good at getting to what he's interested in, then
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby dajafi » Sun Nov 03, 2013 21:38:02

So does the plagiarism thing wipe out Rand Paul? This seems worse than Biden--or at least dumber, considering how much easier it is to catch that now compared to 1987.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/ ... eport.html

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Sun Nov 03, 2013 22:39:12

I don't see how. I think it's much ado about nothing. However, he's acting like a douche over it though, so maybe it will hurt.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby thephan » Mon Nov 04, 2013 08:12:21

The Blowfish is getting some serious national media love. NPR and WashPo being favorable to Christie and giving him a national platform. I would be a little curious about CC's image in the middle of the country. Do they even know who he is?
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Mon Nov 04, 2013 09:50:20

dajafi wrote:So does the plagiarism thing wipe out Rand Paul? This seems worse than Biden--or at least dumber, considering how much easier it is to catch that now compared to 1987.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/ ... eport.html


Probably a badge of honor in the twilight zone whence Rand hails from. He's not a genuine candidate, any more than his old man, so it "hurts" in the same way that any public spotlight "hurts" Ted Cruz, or PeeWee Herman, or Sacha Baron Cohen
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Mon Nov 04, 2013 09:51:59

Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby CalvinBall » Mon Nov 04, 2013 14:31:06

christie/martinez 2016!

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Mon Nov 04, 2013 14:41:19



I suspect eventually with the way that insurance is so cut throat with car insurance commercials that we will soon see health insurance start behaving the same way. IOW, advertise savings and get you to sign up, then slowly increase rates and hope that you're too lazy to switch
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Mon Nov 04, 2013 16:16:40

The Crimson Cyclone wrote:


I suspect eventually with the way that insurance is so cut throat with car insurance commercials that we will soon see health insurance start behaving the same way. IOW, advertise savings and get you to sign up, then slowly increase rates and hope that you're too lazy to switch


well, it won't work that way as things are currently constituted for a whole bunch of reasons, chief among them that most working age people get their health benefits through their employer(s)

but it could, if/when enough people do not get their health benefits via their employer(s). What's "enough"? I don't really know. If you could wave a wand & have everyone getting their coverage via one big honking exchange, or via multiple exchanges, you might well see the kind of behavior your're describing take place.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Nov 04, 2013 17:49:16

Met the governor today. He's a lovely fellow.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Mon Nov 04, 2013 17:55:54

There's a lot to like.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby thephan » Mon Nov 04, 2013 19:22:54

jerseyhoya wrote:Met the governor today. He's a lovely fellow.


Saw over in that "no comment" thread that he is making the rounds to get a feel of his people.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby thephan » Mon Nov 04, 2013 19:27:43

VA gov race is horrible. Terrible humans. Lt Gov is strange as the vocal candidate is suspect on a good day and the democrat is already invisible. AG is a local NV guy whole is unimpressive were the GOP candidate seems to be more of the same drivel we have had. If it were not for my local Repub who has done well by us I would not even vote for elected offices tomorrow.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby BigEd76 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 19:28:37

jerseyhoya wrote:Met the governor today. He's a lovely fellow.


your new pal

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 19:42:05

jerseyhoya wrote:Met the governor today. He's a lovely fellow.


did you tell him about your current BSG av
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Nov 04, 2013 20:07:57

td11 wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Met the governor today. He's a lovely fellow.


did you tell him about your current BSG av

It slipped my mind

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