Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby dajafi » Sat Oct 26, 2013 13:04:11

TenuredVulture wrote:Addressing the budget issue should be quite simple. The difficult step is to get people to recognize that various tax deductions (for instance the fact that health insurance provided by an employer amounts to tax free income or the mortgage interest deduction) are from an economic and fiscal perspective, expenditures. So, by cutting those things, you are in fact shrinking government and cutting spending, not raising taxes. This is of course not easy, since there are legions of interest groups that will try to convince you otherwise. But they are liars.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... not-alone/

So, that's one approach. Maybe you combine it with an overall lowering of rates. Or maybe you just do a little at the edges--maybe you don't touch the mortgage deduction or health insurance now, but go after other deductions, particularly on the corporate side. But you don't make it revenue neutral, you make it revenue positive, because it's really a spending cut.

But the real deal is to trade off sequester spending for entitlement reforms. And you have to reform those entitlements, especially medicare. People are going to like it. But you get people to come around on it through a judicious use of pork and current spending. Use the short termism of most political actors to your advantage.


Someone recently pointed out that the two parties are now tied to positions that have them crosswise with their current core supporters. The Democrats, traditional defenders of Medicare and Social Security, are unable to provide for the younger and more diverse constituents that have made them winners at the presidential level. The Republicans, who have long argued for entitlement reform, find themselves arguing for a policy change that would disadvantage the old whites who enable their House majority.

I get that the Republicans are arguing for changes that wouldn't impact current recipients, but that's a subtlety low-information voters might not grasp.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Sat Oct 26, 2013 14:03:24

dajafi wrote:

I get that the Republicans are arguing for changes that wouldn't impact current recipients, but that's a subtlety low-information voters might not grasp.


The Republicans really do miss opportunities here--if they had real credibility on debt reduction rather than just screaming tax cuts as a solution to everything--they could make a strong credible case to young voters who are going to be the ones paying the price one way or the other for fiscal recklessness. And it wouldn't really require a profound change in orientation. But they can't see it. The tea party types have demonized young voters at every opportunity. And I do think voters, including the young, recognize the difference between tax cuts and fiscal responsibility. And young voters, many of whom aren't paying taxes yet are far more concerned with the latter.

I think this is similar to immigration reform. The fact is that the basic Republican coalition ought to be the ones pushing for a more open immigration policy--it's pro business, and it also is libertarian at its core. But instead, they seem to find the idea of somehow appealing to working class whites as the direction to take. Yet realistically, to do so would require more radical policy pivot than adopting Bush's immigration reform plan. On the Democratic side, unions seem to have made their peace with immigration reform, and while African Americans aren't happy with it, I doubt they're going to go over to the other side.

As far as entitlements, I do think the Dems are being pretty cynical and irresponsible on this.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Sat Oct 26, 2013 14:05:40

TenuredVulture wrote:I do think the widespread disdain most people I know for the Stronger than the Storm song should cost Christie who claims to be a Springsteen fan more than a few votes. I'd say that alone is a bigger abomination than any ACA website glitch.

that fucking song :dh:
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Mon Oct 28, 2013 09:31:18

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/o ... 98928.html

Obama was unaware of the programs where we spy on our allies, and has promised to end it. No word on whether he said, "I found out about these programs when everyone else did, while watching it on tv."


I think someone posted a daily show clip months ago (probably jerseyhoya) where Stewart rags on Obama for always being the last to know. This isn't a new thing for him. I'll try to find it.

Edit: Fount it: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-m ... ly-one-day
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby cshort » Mon Oct 28, 2013 09:35:02

In other words, "if I don't know about it, I can't be blamed for it"
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Oct 28, 2013 15:14:41

Image

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 15:40:48

Newsflash: We spy on our allies and they spy on us. Watching Merkel and company whine about this would be kinda laughable, if not for the fact that she'll probably have to act on it in some way.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby cshort » Mon Oct 28, 2013 15:52:30

Monkeyboy wrote:She'll probably have to act on it in some way.

Can you make sure that's on the news? That way the President hears about it.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby cshort » Mon Oct 28, 2013 15:56:37

Barrack Obama July 2009
“If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.”


Jay Carney Oct 2013
"So it's true there are existing health care plans on the individual market that do not meet those minimum standards and therefore do not qualify for the Affordable Care Act."


Oops
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 16:34:46

cshort wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:She'll probably have to act on it in some way.

Can you make sure that's on the news? That way the President hears about it.



I'm not defending his defense. I'm just saying the crying from our allies is a bit funny given that they almost certainly are spying on us.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 16:38:21

cshort wrote:Barrack Obama July 2009
“If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.”


Jay Carney Oct 2013
"So it's true there are existing health care plans on the individual market that do not meet those minimum standards and therefore do not qualify for the Affordable Care Act."


Oops



You're right, he should have said that the really bad plans will be scrapped and your insurance company will have to provide better ones in their place.

At least he didn't have someone waterboarded and then insist it didn't happen.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 16:42:39



Now here is a lie with some teeth to it.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Mon Oct 28, 2013 17:11:54

A woman was "explaining" to me how shared services at the local level don't save money. Sigh.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Mon Oct 28, 2013 17:31:16

Werthless wrote:http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/obama-nsa-spying-foreign-leaders-report-98928.html

Obama was unaware of the programs where we spy on our allies, and has promised to end it.

Obama is a big fat liar. The NSA and CIA periodically brief the President and senior administration staff on all activities being conducted. Dubya knew. Obama knew.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Oct 28, 2013 18:35:57

President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.

Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.”

Obama admin. knew millions could not keep their health insurance



Whatever one thinks of Obamacare, it is the law, and insofar as it functions poorly, lots of people will suffer as a result. There's no excuse for launching it without adequate testing; for putting an unqualified bureaucracy in charge of coordinating contractors; or for establishing deadlines for buying health insurance without any way of knowing whether the exchanges would be ready in time. Let's hope that the law's approach to reform isn't as poorly thought through as its rollout.

The Stunning Negligence That Doomed Obamacare's Launch
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Mon Oct 28, 2013 19:10:46

Should've just went universal healthcare like every other first world nation but no one had/has the balls to tell the healthcare industrial complex to suck it.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby SK790 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 19:19:03

Monkeyboy wrote:You're right, he should have said that the really bad plans will be scrapped and your insurance company will have to provide better ones in their place.


There is also a lot of people saying that this will ending up being much more affordable and that the "sticker shock" stuff is all overblown, but let's ignore that. The important thing is that things are changing and change is bad.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-0 ... finds.html
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby cshort » Mon Oct 28, 2013 20:22:12

I've seen articles on premiums supposedly dropping (assuming the Medicaid rolls don't get too large), but I see little about how the total costs compare. For instance, what will be the incremental cost related to co-pays, out of network care, and non-generic prescription drug coverage. I'm curious what the costs differential will be for someone taking Humira or another biologic now vs under the ACA.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby cshort » Mon Oct 28, 2013 20:28:21

Monkeyboy wrote:
Now here is a lie with some teeth to it.


Well if you're digging up old chestnuts

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Mon Oct 28, 2013 22:20:21

The Nightman Cometh wrote:A woman was "explaining" to me how shared services at the local level don't save money. Sigh.


Well, to be fair, it doesn't always save money. And generally, the savings are never as much as promised.
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