also i caught some of bill kriston on Morning Joe this AM, and holy shit is he terrible. he was just smiling/laughing at people making serious arguments and literally doing hand waves to dismiss said arguments. and his teeth are awful

The overlooks of the GW parkway are closed. That is just crazy.

fun consequences from the shut down-


-missing hiker in Idaho park, CRaters of the Moon. Govt workers can't even volunteer to look for her

-Children with cancer are being blocked from starting clinical trials, officials say, since federal health employees are also on furlough. Each week of the shutdown, 200 patients won't be able to start their clinical trials; 15% of these patients are expected to be children, and 33% of those children (or 10 per week for as long as the shutdown lasts) have cancer. Ongoing clinical trials will continue, however, ABC News reports.

-The CDC has also furloughed employees, so it can't track multi-state disease outbreaks. And its seasonal flu program will be halted, which might hinder its ability to create next year's flu shot, a spokesperson says.

-The Washington Post has a list of the nine most painful consequences. Among them: Of the more than 2 million federal workers whose paychecks might be delayed, 800,000 might never actually get paid.

-If the shutdown lasts more than a couple of weeks, veterans may not receive pension payments or see their disability claims paid. Disability benefits for non-veterans could also be interrupted.

-The Women, Infants and Children (WIC) nutritional program could keep running through October in many states, but could shut down after just one week in some. And Head Start programs, which provide health, nutrition, and other services to low-income kids, will gradually start closing.

-NPR runs down the shutdown's many impacts on science and health. Workers are furloughed and programs are being shut down at the National Institutes of Health, the CDC, the FDA, NASA, the US Geological Survey, NOAA, the EPA, the Forest Service, and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. (And as you probably have heard, the National Zoo turned off its "panda cam.")

-One other impact? A planned Ku Klux Klan rally at Gettysburg won't be happening.


http://www.newser.com/story/175196/shut ... gn=rss_top

stewart did a good bit on one network's lol reaction to the shutdown

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-o ... h-of-dumbs

cshort wrote:I wonder how much of this could have been avoided if the original bill had been done with some republican support. If things like tort reform and accessing insurance across state lines had been included in the original bill (things the GOP asked for) it could have short circuited the GOP's current argument as they would have co-owned the bill. Then again, if the democrats agreed to that at the time, perhaps the GOP would have moved the goalposts.

PERHAPS?!?!?!?!!


they already co-owned it since, you know, they thought it up originally. and THIS law has nothing to do with a CR or the debt ceiling except that republicans have decided it does.

pacino wrote:

cshort wrote:I wonder how much of this could have been avoided if the original bill had been done with some republican support. If things like tort reform and accessing insurance across state lines had been included in the original bill (things the GOP asked for) it could have short circuited the GOP's current argument as they would have co-owned the bill. Then again, if the democrats agreed to that at the time, perhaps the GOP would have moved the goalposts.

PERHAPS?!?!?!?!!


they already co-owned it since, you know, they thought it up originally. and THIS law has nothing to do with a CR or the debt ceiling except that republicans have decided it does.

I realize the Heritage Foundation came up with the idea, but most Americans aren't going to connect the two. There's been speculation that enough moderates would move if a few of the items I mentioned were on the table, items that may actually improve the bill a bit without lessening accessibility. Why not call their bluff and see the GOP's reaction. If the GOP moves again, you have plenty of ammunition to use against them in 2014.

this isnt about politics for 2014

pacino wrote:this isnt about politics for 2014

Not so sure the GOP agrees

cshort wrote:

pacino wrote:this isnt about politics for 2014

Not so sure the GOP agrees

First it's not the GOP it's the 20 something scurrilous reactionary thugs whose seats were bought by KochCo.

The House Republicans' confusion about the separation of powers - that Congress is not part of the executive branch - is not grounds for "negotiation", media boners about simplistic confrontation narratives notwithstanding.

If I'm Barry I shove this shit right up Boehner's nose & say "I'm paying our bills & I'll see you in court".

The House owns the shutdown, and the curtain can be rung down on the debt ceiling farce once & for all

cshort wrote:

pacino wrote:

cshort wrote:I wonder how much of this could have been avoided if the original bill had been done with some republican support. If things like tort reform and accessing insurance across state lines had been included in the original bill (things the GOP asked for) it could have short circuited the GOP's current argument as they would have co-owned the bill. Then again, if the democrats agreed to that at the time, perhaps the GOP would have moved the goalposts.

PERHAPS?!?!?!?!!


they already co-owned it since, you know, they thought it up originally. and THIS law has nothing to do with a CR or the debt ceiling except that republicans have decided it does.

I realize the Heritage Foundation came up with the idea, but most Americans aren't going to connect the two. There's been speculation that enough moderates would move if a few of the items I mentioned were on the table, items that may actually improve the bill a bit without lessening accessibility. Why not call their bluff and see the GOP's reaction. If the GOP moves again, you have plenty of ammunition to use against them in 2014.

They're not pushing back on this or that aspect of the bill. Remember the reason it took so long to move in 2009 was that Max Baucus kept trying to bring in R votes by changing pieces. Malpractice reform and portability were on the table. Obama pretty much begged them to pick those pieces up. If three R Senators--the number that voted for the ARRA--had gone along, I'm sure they would have been in the bill. And as a non-trial lawyer or insurance monopolist, I'm sure the bill would have been better as a result.

The key phrases of 2009 were "Obama's Waterloo" and "one-term president." The motivation goes back to 1993 and Bill Kristol's statement that any Clinton healthcare law would represent a political disaster for team R.

(Sidebar: between killing the Clinton era reform and pushing the Iraq War, I think a case could be made that Kristol is responsible for more pain, suffering and death than any American of the last generation. It's almost enough to hope there's a judgment and an afterlife...)

Fifty years ago, the conservatives thought Medicare would signal the end of liberty. But enough sane Rs engaged in the process you're talking about to ensure its legitimacy and improve the law. I'd dearly love to see today's Republicans take the same approach. But it's just not happening, and I guess there are no political incentives for it in today's R party.

According to Huffpo, the votes are there for a discharge petition. However, that really just kicks the can down the road until the debt ceiling is hit. How long do you try to work out a "less than grand" bargain before those 17+ Rs go ahead and force a vote?

cshort wrote:I wonder how much of this could have been avoided if the original bill had been done with some republican support. If things like tort reform and accessing insurance across state lines had been included in the original bill (things the GOP asked for) it could have short circuited the GOP's current argument as they would have co-owned the bill. Then again, if the democrats agreed to that at the time, perhaps the GOP would have moved the goalposts.

The funny thing is, in states that have implimented tort reform, healthcare costs and malpractice costs haven't gone down but have actually increased at a rate higher than national average. Docs don't prescribe extra or unnecessary tests and procedures because they're afraid of being sued, they do it to make more money. In those states, there's more "revenue generating" unnecessary tests/procedures because of tort reform.

Well, I guess that isn't really funny.

So the tea party thought it had problems with the IRS. Wait until the fine folks at Goldman Sachs get done with tea party members 401k plans. I mean, they're supposed to be the Masters of the Universe. Can't they just destroy Koch industries by pressing a few buttons on one of their electronic market thingys?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/g ... ml?hp=t1_3

This does support my hypothesis that a big problem is that there really is no pro-business party anymore.

Dark days for my people, the country club Republicans. We came to this country, and we hired other people to build it. It's ours, dammit.

Tell Boehner if he wants to negotiate, fine, capital gains and estate taxes are on the table. We'll see how much the R's really want to negotiate.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/on-capito ... le/2536702

whole article is insane but

"So in light of that, let's leave Obamacare for another day," Lee said, "and not hold the vast majority of government functions hostage when the vast majority of government functions don't have anything to do with the implementation and enforcement of Obamacare."

amazing

td11 wrote:also i caught some of bill kriston on Morning Joe this AM, and holy #$!&@ is he terrible. he was just smiling/laughing at people making serious arguments and literally doing hand waves to dismiss said arguments. and his teeth are awful

Agree. I found it cringe-worthy when Kristol (through his laughter) shared the story about him being the Chief of Staff at the Department of Education and joking with Secretary of Education Bill Bennett about whether or not to designate everyone at DOE as non-essential employees during the 1986 shutdown. LOL, that's a good one you douche-bag. Kristol nearly shaking his head off his shoulders while Sam Stein relayed stories about 86,000 in AR losing nutritional assistance and 18 Head Start programs in CT shutting down made me want to punch him in the fucking face. It is amazing that anyone could be so dismissive of the plight of fellow, less fortunate Americans. Scratch that, human beings.

traderdave wrote:

td11 wrote:also i caught some of bill kriston on Morning Joe this AM, and holy #$!&@ is he terrible. he was just smiling/laughing at people making serious arguments and literally doing hand waves to dismiss said arguments. and his teeth are awful

Agree. I found it cringe-worthy when Kristol (through his laughter) shared the story about him being the Chief of Staff at the Department of Education and joking with Secretary of Education Bill Bennett about whether or not to designate everyone at DOE as non-essential employees during the 1986 shutdown. LOL, that's a good one you douche-bag. Kristol nearly shaking his head off his shoulders while Sam Stein relayed stories about 86,000 in AR losing nutritional assistance and 18 Head Start programs in CT shutting down made me want to punch him in the fucking face. It is amazing that anyone could be so dismissive of the plight of fellow, less fortunate Americans. Scratch that, human beings.

Have you not read Nietzsche?

TenuredVulture wrote:

traderdave wrote:

td11 wrote:also i caught some of bill kriston on Morning Joe this AM, and holy #$!&@ is he terrible. he was just smiling/laughing at people making serious arguments and literally doing hand waves to dismiss said arguments. and his teeth are awful

Agree. I found it cringe-worthy when Kristol (through his laughter) shared the story about him being the Chief of Staff at the Department of Education and joking with Secretary of Education Bill Bennett about whether or not to designate everyone at DOE as non-essential employees during the 1986 shutdown. LOL, that's a good one you douche-bag. Kristol nearly shaking his head off his shoulders while Sam Stein relayed stories about 86,000 in AR losing nutritional assistance and 18 Head Start programs in CT shutting down made me want to punch him in the #$!&@ face. It is amazing that anyone could be so dismissive of the plight of fellow, less fortunate Americans. Scratch that, human beings.

Have you not read Nietzsche?

I have managed to avoid it to this point in my life. Where do you suggest I start, because I desperately want to learn to not give a shit like everybody else? Imagine how much simpler life would be.

traderdave wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

traderdave wrote:

td11 wrote:also i caught some of bill kriston on Morning Joe this AM, and holy #$!&@ is he terrible. he was just smiling/laughing at people making serious arguments and literally doing hand waves to dismiss said arguments. and his teeth are awful

Agree. I found it cringe-worthy when Kristol (through his laughter) shared the story about him being the Chief of Staff at the Department of Education and joking with Secretary of Education Bill Bennett about whether or not to designate everyone at DOE as non-essential employees during the 1986 shutdown. LOL, that's a good one you douche-bag. Kristol nearly shaking his head off his shoulders while Sam Stein relayed stories about 86,000 in AR losing nutritional assistance and 18 Head Start programs in CT shutting down made me want to punch him in the #$!&@ face. It is amazing that anyone could be so dismissive of the plight of fellow, less fortunate Americans. Scratch that, human beings.

Have you not read Nietzsche?

I have managed to avoid it to this point in my life. Where do you suggest I start, because I desperately want to learn to not give a shit like everybody else? Imagine how much simpler life would be.

Read the simplified american version--Ayn Rand.

traderdave wrote:

td11 wrote:also i caught some of bill kriston on Morning Joe this AM, and holy #$!&@ is he terrible. he was just smiling/laughing at people making serious arguments and literally doing hand waves to dismiss said arguments. and his teeth are awful

Agree. I found it cringe-worthy when Kristol (through his laughter) shared the story about him being the Chief of Staff at the Department of Education and joking with Secretary of Education Bill Bennett about whether or not to designate everyone at DOE as non-essential employees during the 1986 shutdown. LOL, that's a good one you douche-bag. Kristol nearly shaking his head off his shoulders while Sam Stein relayed stories about 86,000 in AR losing nutritional assistance and 18 Head Start programs in CT shutting down made me want to punch him in the fucking face. It is amazing that anyone could be so dismissive of the plight of fellow, less fortunate Americans. Scratch that, human beings.

ugh the department of education story made me nauseous and then the sam stein segment made me change the channel. just gross. it's like any damaging aspect of the shutdown that doesn't personally affect these guys isn't a real thing that's happening