Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:12:06

still 3 years to clean up Rubio's drinking problem
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:46:28

Image
obama derangement syndrome
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:50:57

the guy picks a republican in Hagel, a former Bushie in Brennan and a statesman in Kerry and Dick Cheney said the team is second-rate.
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:55:22

so the CIA lawyer who authorized torture and is a close friend of Brennan's stated Brennan never brought up any objections to torture, and if he did it might've made an impact on the policy.
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:05:48

pacino wrote:Image
obama derangement syndrome

Nothing wrong with that. A lot of people have weakly formed preferences on issues, and additional information should effect people's answers. You may not know all the details about immigration reform including a path to citizenship, but it sounds nice enough so you say you're for it. You find out a politician you generally disagree with is promoting the idea, you say you're against it. Most people don't pay a lot of attention to everything that is going on in politics, and being able to use shortcuts like the stance of a party or prominent politicians whom you either support or oppose on the issue is a lot quicker than reading the whole bill and usually works pretty well.

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:11:48

except now the politicans and the party they are for is also for it.
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:20:44

I'm surprised JH didn't drop a "heuristics" on you.
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:22:34

pacino wrote:except now the politicans and the party they are for is also for it.

And if the question noted the support of Obama and many Congressional Republicans the results presumably would've been quite different.

TenuredVulture wrote:I'm surprised JH didn't drop a "heuristics" on you.

I said shortcuts instead. I speak to the masses.

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:44:01

The chart shows Dems shifting a net of 27 points toward Obama's positions, and Republicans shifting a net of 32 points away from Obama's positions. In a world where many people have very weakly formed preferences on political issues, finding out the stance of a politician or a political party you generally support or oppose is a useful piece of information. It should shift some responses.

The only weird thing there to me is that for whatever reason independents seem to really trust Obama on Afghanistan and to a lesser extent on guns but not on immigration. Seems counter to conventional wisdom.

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby Werthless » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:48:29

TenuredVulture wrote:I'm surprised JH didn't drop a "heuristics" on you.

To paraphrase Peter Griffin, it was me with the series of "shallow and pedantic" posts.

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby Werthless » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:01:06

Regarding the minimum wage, more important than a raised rate (which will likely hurt employment in the short-term) is to tie it to inflation. But I agree with jerseyhoya, the federal minimum wage should be based off the lowest standard of living state. It's up to individual states to move beyond that if their cost of living is higher.

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:04:06

Werthless wrote:Regarding the minimum wage, more important than a raised rate (which will likely hurt employment in the short-term) is to tie it to inflation. But I agree with jerseyhoya, the federal minimum wage should be based off the lowest standard of living state. It's up to individual states to move beyond that if their cost of living is higher.


there's nothing magically economically virtuous about that lowest standard of living criterion (partly because the entirety of minimum wage matters is emblematic of the well-nigh-impossibility of genuinely separating politics and economics).
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby Werthless » Wed Feb 13, 2013 14:18:58

drsmooth wrote:
Werthless wrote:Regarding the minimum wage, more important than a raised rate (which will likely hurt employment in the short-term) is to tie it to inflation. But I agree with jerseyhoya, the federal minimum wage should be based off the lowest standard of living state. It's up to individual states to move beyond that if their cost of living is higher.


there's nothing magically economically virtuous about that lowest standard of living criterion (partly because the entirety of minimum wage matters is emblematic of the well-nigh-impossibility of genuinely separating politics and economics).

Why don't we just move the minimum wage to $20, since that is what fast food workers in North Dakota oil towns can earn?

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby Werthless » Wed Feb 13, 2013 14:27:19

I must say that Jack Lew having investments in Cayman-based funds is delicious irony.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html

I can't wait for the snarky criticisms of Jack Lew from Doll is Mine, JFLNYC, Monkeyboy, and Youseff on this issue. :)

Obama excoriated his opponent in last year’s election as being unfit for office for having such investments. So by Obama’s own standard, shouldn’t Lew be considered unfit for office as well? Obama specifically called the investment Lew held the world’s biggest “tax scam.” Should the man responsible for U.S. tax policy be someone the president says was involved in a “tax scam”? Someone the Democratic Senate Finance Committee chairman says was “feasting at America’s taxpayers’ expense”?

A White House spokesman, Eric Schultz, pointed out that Lew broke no laws and “paid all of his taxes and reported all of the income, gains and losses from the investment on his tax returns.” But last year Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said that while Romney had not technically broken any laws by keeping his money in offshore tax havens, “is not technically breaking the law a high-enough standard for someone who wants to be president of the United States?” Well, is not technically breaking the law a high-enough standard for someone who wants to be secretary of the Treasury?

Investing in the Cayman Islands does not make Lew unfit to be Treasury secretary. But it does make him unfit to be Obama’s Treasury secretary.

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 13, 2013 14:29:11

Werthless wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
Werthless wrote:Regarding the minimum wage, more important than a raised rate (which will likely hurt employment in the short-term) is to tie it to inflation. But I agree with jerseyhoya, the federal minimum wage should be based off the lowest standard of living state. It's up to individual states to move beyond that if their cost of living is higher.


there's nothing magically economically virtuous about that lowest standard of living criterion (partly because the entirety of minimum wage matters is emblematic of the well-nigh-impossibility of genuinely separating politics and economics).

Why don't we just move the minimum wage to $20, since that is what fast food workers in North Dakota oil towns can earn?


why restrict our threshold to silly old national & state borders when it's perfectly obvious we can find some barefoot Senegalese kids who'll do some of that low-wage stuff for a bag of millet, and use their 'wage rate' as our standard?

Do you ever give any of this stuff actual thought, or are you working from some kind of checklist?
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby Bucky » Wed Feb 13, 2013 14:31:28

watched the speech in a luxury bar/restaurant on Wall Street last night

Guess how that went

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Wed Feb 13, 2013 14:35:48

Bucky wrote:watched the speech in a luxury bar/restaurant on Wall Street last night

Guess how that went



rioting?
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby Werthless » Wed Feb 13, 2013 14:40:43

drsmooth wrote:
Werthless wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
Werthless wrote:Regarding the minimum wage, more important than a raised rate (which will likely hurt employment in the short-term) is to tie it to inflation. But I agree with jerseyhoya, the federal minimum wage should be based off the lowest standard of living state. It's up to individual states to move beyond that if their cost of living is higher.


there's nothing magically economically virtuous about that lowest standard of living criterion (partly because the entirety of minimum wage matters is emblematic of the well-nigh-impossibility of genuinely separating politics and economics).

Why don't we just move the minimum wage to $20, since that is what fast food workers in North Dakota oil towns can earn?


why restrict our threshold to silly old national & state borders when it's perfectly obvious we can find some barefoot Senegalese kids who'll do some of that low-wage stuff for a bag of millet, and use their 'wage rate' as our standard?

Do you ever give any of this stuff actual thought, or are you working from some kind of checklist?

That's kind of my point. Unless we're basing it on standard of living as I suggested, then it's arbitrary. And if we accept your premise that minimum wage does not have an effect on employment, why not set an arbitrarily high minimum wage like $20/hr? I don't understand what you're arguing for, doc, so it's hard for me to address you directly. I'm guessing that you think the federal minimum wage should be immediately raised to $9/hr?

I'm always of the opinion that, in cases of policies that can have a potentially negative effect on the economy, it's better for federal policy to be cautious. I'd rather states or even cities/towns set more aggressive minimum wage rates that reflect local conditions. NYC, for example, can more easily justify a much higher minimum wage.

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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 13, 2013 14:41:35

The Crimson Cyclone wrote:
Bucky wrote:watched the speech in a luxury bar/restaurant on Wall Street last night

Guess how that went



rioting?

between the 4th and 5th course
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Re: Desperately need a drink of politics thread

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 13, 2013 14:42:52

Werthless wrote:I must say that Jack Lew having investments in Cayman-based funds is delicious irony.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html

I can't wait for the snarky criticisms of Jack Lew from Doll is Mine, JFLNYC, Monkeyboy, and Youseff on this issue. :)

Obama excoriated his opponent in last year’s election as being unfit for office for having such investments. So by Obama’s own standard, shouldn’t Lew be considered unfit for office as well? Obama specifically called the investment Lew held the world’s biggest “tax scam.” Should the man responsible for U.S. tax policy be someone the president says was involved in a “tax scam”? Someone the Democratic Senate Finance Committee chairman says was “feasting at America’s taxpayers’ expense”?

A White House spokesman, Eric Schultz, pointed out that Lew broke no laws and “paid all of his taxes and reported all of the income, gains and losses from the investment on his tax returns.” But last year Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said that while Romney had not technically broken any laws by keeping his money in offshore tax havens, “is not technically breaking the law a high-enough standard for someone who wants to be president of the United States?” Well, is not technically breaking the law a high-enough standard for someone who wants to be secretary of the Treasury?

Investing in the Cayman Islands does not make Lew unfit to be Treasury secretary. But it does make him unfit to be Obama’s Treasury secretary.

the President should've gone full-force and gone Bill Black or Neil Barofsky for Treasury. that's not what he does.
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