I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

by **Werthless** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 00:31:19

dajafi wrote:The pick shows 1) how completely we've become a parliamentary system and 2) Romney's comical weakness as a leader. His ego will be, to use a word he likes, "severely" strained by Ryan getting so much more love from the WSJ editorial board and others whose approval he craves.

How does picking someone who is loved by others show comical weakness? Shouldn't a good leader pick the best person for the job?

I'm glad he picked Ryan. Even if his budget plans are imperfect and rosy (whose aren't), I'm pleased he picked one of the two (christie being the other) that are willing to disagree with the establishment on issues.

by **Doll Is Mine** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 01:08:13

President Obama on the Ryan plan in April 2011.

“It’s a vision that says if our roads crumble and our bridges collapse, we can’t afford to fix them,” Obama said. “If there are bright young Americans who have the drive and the will but not the money to go to college, we can’t afford to send them. … It’s a vision that says America can’t afford to keep the promise we’ve made to care for our seniors.”

He went on, slamming the plan on health care, education, clean energy and tax breaks for the wealthy.

“[W]orst of all,” Obama declared, “this is a vision that says even though Americans can’t afford to invest in education at current levels, or clean energy, even though we can’t afford to maintain our commitment on Medicare and Medicaid, we can somehow afford more than $1 trillion in new tax breaks for the wealthy. Think about that. …

“This vision is less about reducing the deficit than it is about changing the basic social compact in America. Ronald Reagan’s own budget director said there’s nothing ‘serious’ or ‘courageous’ about this plan.”

by **Monkeyboy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 01:13:30

It's a sign of how far to the right the country has swung that so many ex-Reagan people have come out over the past decade against Republican policies.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 02:21:21

Jay Cost ‏@JayCostTWS
The liberal disbelief at the Ryan pick is yet another indication that the left fundamentally misunderstands the right.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 02:23:15

Werthless wrote:How does picking someone who is loved by others show comical weakness?

The left today online has been espousing the ideas, simultaneously, that the Ryan budget is not brave politically AND going to cost the GOP the election

Yeah

by **The Nightman Cometh** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 02:27:08

There's really no legitamate argument there. Ryan is brave and I think you have to respect him regardless of affiliation. That said, I think it's easier to argue this will blow up in Romney's face than save his campaign.

by **Doll Is Mine** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 02:39:26

Both sides can spin it anyway they'd like but the fact remains that the Paul Ryan pick today officially established that this race is no longer about Obama's economic plan but rather what the alternative might look like.

The Republicans' biggest problem is that most people don't like the alternative.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 02:48:06

It's impressive how many people on BSG know more about politics than Mitt Romney's inner circle and have access to the focus group/polling work they've done testing various messages

by **The Nightman Cometh** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 02:56:41

jerseyhoya wrote:It's impressive how many people on BSG know more about politics than Mitt Romney's inner circle and have access to the focus group/polling work they've done testing various messages

I'm basically regurgitating Silver outside of the respecting Ryan part (which I genuinely do).

So you know. Whatever.

by **Doll Is Mine** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 03:10:02

jerseyhoya wrote:It's impressive how many people on BSG know more about politics than Mitt Romney's inner circle and have access to the focus group/polling work they've done testing various messages

If you think that most Americans would vote to gut Medicare and Medicaid and privatize Social Security in order to give millionaires more tax cuts, you're delusional.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 03:11:21

That's not the message we tested, I'd guess

by **bleh** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 03:55:10

What message did you test with Sarah Palin?

by **Monkeyboy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 04:28:34

would you like to fuck a soccer mom if she was VP?

I think it probably says that Mitt looked at the situation and thought he was in a bad spot, so he shook things up in order to change the narrative. The narrative was "I'm insanely wealthy and I did it all myself, so please cut my taxes and don't ask any questions." Now the narrative is, "We don't give a shit about regular people and we're here to take your retirement money and charge you extra for your medical care." Who knows, maybe it will help.

OK, I'm kidding about the last part, but I don't think you can see this pick and not think it's a reaction to the problems he's having with his base. I'm sure it helped his polling or he wouldn't have done it, but there's no way Ryan is the pick if Mitt's campaign is in better shape. And yes, I do have access to Mitt's inner circle.

by **Monkeyboy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 04:33:11

jerseyhoya wrote:
Werthless wrote:How does picking someone who is loved by others show comical weakness?

The left today online has been espousing the ideas, simultaneously, that the Ryan budget is not brave politically AND going to cost the GOP the election

Yeah

That's because liberals are trained to think for themselves instead of just parroting what the leaders say.

But really, was it the same person saying both things? Otherwise, I don't see the big deal. Some individuals will see it one way, others will see it another way. I would have thought it much stranger if they were all saying the same thing. (and this is sort of a running gripe of mine).

by **dajafi** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 08:51:48

Werthless wrote:
dajafi wrote:The pick shows 1) how completely we've become a parliamentary system and 2) Romney's comical weakness as a leader. His ego will be, to use a word he likes, "severely" strained by Ryan getting so much more love from the WSJ editorial board and others whose approval he craves.

How does picking someone who is loved by others show comical weakness? Shouldn't a good leader pick the best person for the job?

I'm glad he picked Ryan. Even if his budget plans are imperfect and rosy (whose aren't), I'm pleased he picked one of the two (christie being the other) that are willing to disagree with the establishment on issues.

It's weak because yet again Romney caved to the far right. He will never cross them, and precisely because Ryan has staked out such a clear position (other than specifying what he'd cut to justify the massive tax breaks for the 1 percent) while Romney hasn't and won't, he's now in a sense the #2 on his own ticket. I suspect I'm not the only one who wishes the debates were between Obama and Ryan.

There's also the point Silver and others have made, which is that he wouldn't have moved to make the election about a war on the welfare state by picking Ryan if he believed the pure referendum strategy was going well.

Though I'm also glad he picked Ryan--less for the political effects, which we've speculated about but can't really know, than the fact that it offers the clearest choice for the country.

by **CalvinBall** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 09:56:01

Personally, I wasn't very excited about the election and voting. Now I'm kinda looking forward to it and voting for Obama again.

by **TenuredVulture** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:00:55

jerseyhoya wrote:It's impressive how many people on BSG know more about politics than Mitt Romney's inner circle and have access to the focus group/polling work they've done testing various messages

Well, they know more than Manuel and Amaro and Reid about their respective professions.

by **Monkeyboy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:06:06

Way to stick it to the man, CB.

I'm going to make sure I'm registered in PA, since that's our last address and where all our stuff is stored. I guess I could still register in TN though. Come to think of it, I better ask someone about this to make sure I don't accidentally commit voter fraud. My mail goes to PA and that's where our stuff is stored and we stayed there for a few weeks after our lease ran out in TN before the big move. But the last place we filed income tax and had a lease is TN. Hmmmm. I would rather vote in PA because that's a close race, but I don't want to do it illegally and become the poster boy for the Rep voter fraud sham

by **dajafi** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:03:09

Good piece on the tension between Ryan's budget priorities and those of the older whites whom Republicans will need to win

http://mobile.nationaljournal.com/2012- ... 812?page=1

What I honestly don't understand is how they sell this. The Bush period proved that massive tax cuts for the wealthiest don't have a growth effect. So all I can see is a moral argument that the 1 percent deserve to keep more of their money, even at the cost of gutting discretionary programs and entitlements.

I get that people vote their "values" as much as their economic self-interest. But given all the polling that's shown the popularity of raising, not cutting, the top rate and the unpopularity of gutting entitlements, I don't see how they appeal to the working/middle-class whites who are probably in play.

All that said, if Netanyahu starts a war with Iran soon enough to tank the economy before the election, Mitt could win. That's by far my biggest worry, and my most paranoid thought is that this is guaranteed and known so the Rs put Ryan on the ticket in order to claim electoral justification for the radical upward redistribution of wealth they're planning.

by **Youseff** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 17:40:49

If you need the short hand for that Dinesh D'Souza movie, it's that Republicans still consider Joseph McCarthy a hero, and they're so intellectually vapid that if you've ever even associated with someone who has studied or is in favor of different economic and or political system you are a grave threat. Also, apparently we don't have nearly enough nuclear weapons.

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