I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Doll Is Mine » Wed Aug 15, 2012 01:17:41

Despite Mitt Romney's efforts to court women voters ahead of November, he chose a running mate who is far outside the mainstream on women's health issues. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) cosponsored a bill that would give fetuses full personhood rights from the moment of fertilization, which was even rejected by voters in the socially conservative state of Mississippi. He voted to defund federal family planning programs, authored a budget that dismantles Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, all of which disproportionately aid and employ women, and voted multiple times to prevent women in the military from using their own money to pay for abortions at military hospitals.

Ryan also supported a highly controversial bill that Democrats nicknamed the "Let Women Die Act," which would have allowed hospitals to refuse to provide a woman emergency abortion care, even if her life is on the line.


Yikes.

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Aug 15, 2012 01:26:14

A 'women's rights' 'reporter' from the Huffington Post doesn't like Paul Ryan.

Good thing I was sitting down, because the shock of reading that was overwhelming.

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Polar Bear Phan » Wed Aug 15, 2012 02:58:05

The Nightman Cometh wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
pacino wrote:but really, why win the senate? to do what?what's the GOP's goal?

I imagine repealing Obamacare and tax reform would be at the top of the list. You can repeal most of Obamacare through reconciliation, and hopefully they can come up with some sort of a bipartisan broaden the base, eliminate deductions, lower rates reform that can pass both houses. I'm not optimistic about Romney getting anything like changing the tax code through a Dem led Senate (especially if dbag Reid is still Majority Leader) even if it has bipartisan support.

What a winning platform that would be.


Considering over 50% of voters favor those things, and over 50% of the votes generally correlates with winning elections, I'd agree.

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 04:44:55

Werthless wrote:
dajafi wrote:I think paying down the debt is a worthwhile thing to do. Not necessarily all the way to zero, but as a signal that we can get our shit together when we need to, the occasional surplus is pretty clearly a good thing.

The problem--and maybe you're hinting at this--is that Clinton's fiscal responsibility ultimately just enabled Bush to blow it all on non-stimulative tax cuts and dumb wars of choice. Unless there's bipartisan consensus as to what "fiscal responsibility" basically means, there's little incentive to do the prudent thing.

Basically, government doesnt know what to do with a surplus. We had the surges in stock prices in the late 90s fueling higher receipts, and all the governments say "hey, this money will last forever because we're in a new economy...blah blah blah we're idiots, let's spend it or cut taxes (depending on your party affiliation)."



If the party affiliation is republican, they'll do both, and that's the problem.
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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 05:15:33

jerseyhoya wrote:A 'women's rights' 'reporter' from the Huffington Post doesn't like Paul Ryan.

Good thing I was sitting down, because the shock of reading that was overwhelming.



Yes, because most people are going to read it and say, "Hey, this reporter probably has a slant on this. The facts she's reporting may be skewed." LOL, good luck with that.

You're too smart and too into politics to think that people's opinions are that nuanced. Women are going to read about the law he tried to pass and be offended by it. Not all women, but a lot of them. We all saw Mitt's numbers tumble a few months ago when he and the GOP were having their first go at this material. This is part of that and people's opinions of it aren't going to change just because this reporter is a women's rights reporter.
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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 07:03:56

It's not that I think Mitt believes people will suffer from malnourishment if they get rid of entitlement programs. I'm sure he thinks the economy will magically flourish under his benevolent rule. It's more that widespread poverty will be the natural result of tanking the economy and removing the safety nets.

I suspect Mitt will approach the problem of the poor and weak the same way he's taken care of other such problems in his life. He'll probably figuratively do what he did with his dog on that really long trip. He'll try to keep them out of the way and out of sight so that they don't inconvenience the nice people trying to have a nice vacation. And if something goes wrong, he'll just pull over to a gas station, hose them off with water, and place them right back out of sight. Problem solved.
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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Bucky » Wed Aug 15, 2012 08:41:39

TenuredVulture wrote:
pacino wrote:plus it is a regressive tax system

So is a property tax, though most people don't realize it--they think renters somehow magically escape it.


PA HB1776 is designed to abolish property taxes. They say that when that happens, landlords will lower rents. :lol:

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby thephan » Wed Aug 15, 2012 09:40:54

I wish someone would creative come up with a method to have Americans invest in America to buy down the debt or apply funds to infrastructure. I am not sure what type of future benefit there could be, but finding a way over those humps is important. I guess it is hairy because it would involve the tax code, etc, but it could make heroes out of the rich. That is not to say that people with means do not do some great things for communities and charitable causes, but there is not benefit to lending a hand.

PiP pulled up the report card I was thinking of around infrastructure. Averaging a D is fantastic! I will say I am surprised that Rail is so low, but it likely involves things like public transit and Amtrak. I say this because the rail industry would have you believe that they are doing every better then everyone else with their own funds.
yawn

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby drsmooth » Wed Aug 15, 2012 09:46:11

Polar Bear Phan wrote:
The Nightman Cometh wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
pacino wrote:but really, why win the senate? to do what?what's the GOP's goal?

I imagine repealing Obamacare and tax reform would be at the top of the list. You can repeal most of Obamacare through reconciliation, and hopefully they can come up with some sort of a bipartisan broaden the base, eliminate deductions, lower rates reform that can pass both houses. I'm not optimistic about Romney getting anything like changing the tax code through a Dem led Senate (especially if dbag Reid is still Majority Leader) even if it has bipartisan support.

What a winning platform that would be.


Considering over 50% of voters favor those things, and over 50% of the votes generally correlates with winning elections, I'd agree.



voters favor repealing ACA, AND they favor most of its key provisions. So they're confused. Pretty typical when it comes to health benefits & health policy. Proposals to repeal ACA will not win anyone any elections.
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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:09:12

drsmooth wrote:
Polar Bear Phan wrote:
The Nightman Cometh wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
pacino wrote:but really, why win the senate? to do what?what's the GOP's goal?

I imagine repealing Obamacare and tax reform would be at the top of the list. You can repeal most of Obamacare through reconciliation, and hopefully they can come up with some sort of a bipartisan broaden the base, eliminate deductions, lower rates reform that can pass both houses. I'm not optimistic about Romney getting anything like changing the tax code through a Dem led Senate (especially if dbag Reid is still Majority Leader) even if it has bipartisan support.

What a winning platform that would be.


Considering over 50% of voters favor those things, and over 50% of the votes generally correlates with winning elections, I'd agree.

voters favor repealing ACA, AND they favor most of its key provisions. So they're confused. Pretty typical when it comes to health benefits & health policy. Proposals to repeal ACA will not win anyone any elections.

Were you in a coma in 2010?

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Bucky » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:09:21

thephan wrote:I wish someone would creative come up with a method to have Americans invest in America to buy down the debt or apply funds to infrastructure. I am not sure what type of future benefit there could be, but finding a way over those humps is important. I guess it is hairy because it would involve the tax code, etc, but it could make heroes out of the rich. That is not to say that people with means do not do some great things for communities and charitable causes, but there is not benefit to lending a hand.

PiP pulled up the report card I was thinking of around infrastructure. Averaging a D is fantastic! I will say I am surprised that Rail is so low, but it likely involves things like public transit and Amtrak. I say this because the rail industry would have you believe that they are doing every better then everyone else with their own funds.


Ever the cynic, I think it is worth noting that the author of the scorecard is those who would significantly benefit financially from the investment to improve said grades.

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby pacino » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:11:26

jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
Polar Bear Phan wrote:
The Nightman Cometh wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
pacino wrote:but really, why win the senate? to do what?what's the GOP's goal?

I imagine repealing Obamacare and tax reform would be at the top of the list. You can repeal most of Obamacare through reconciliation, and hopefully they can come up with some sort of a bipartisan broaden the base, eliminate deductions, lower rates reform that can pass both houses. I'm not optimistic about Romney getting anything like changing the tax code through a Dem led Senate (especially if dbag Reid is still Majority Leader) even if it has bipartisan support.

What a winning platform that would be.


Considering over 50% of voters favor those things, and over 50% of the votes generally correlates with winning elections, I'd agree.

voters favor repealing ACA, AND they favor most of its key provisions. So they're confused. Pretty typical when it comes to health benefits & health policy. Proposals to repeal ACA will not win anyone any elections.

Were you in a coma in 2010?

is this your mantra? lie to voters to get their vote and then say '2010! 2010! 2010!' when they buy it?

because an off-year election correlates directly with a presidential election.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:22:21

pacino wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:Proposals to repeal ACA will not win anyone any elections.

Were you in a coma in 2010?

is this your mantra? lie to voters to get their vote and then say '2010! 2010! 2010!' when they buy it?

because an off-year election correlates directly with a presidential election.

No, I don't think so. But every time someone says, 'This will never convince voters' about something Republicans campaigned on to great effect in the federal elections held 21 months ago, I plan on saying '2010'.

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby dajafi » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:16:01

jerseyhoya wrote:
pacino wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:Proposals to repeal ACA will not win anyone any elections.

Were you in a coma in 2010?

is this your mantra? lie to voters to get their vote and then say '2010! 2010! 2010!' when they buy it?

because an off-year election correlates directly with a presidential election.

No, I don't think so. But every time someone says, 'This will never convince voters' about something Republicans campaigned on to great effect in the federal elections held 21 months ago, I plan on saying '2010'.


And every time, we'll point out that this year's electorate will be bigger, younger, and less white, and that Team R now owns a big part of the Congress's record low unpopularity.

In the interest of saving space, I think it would be best to take both points as read: Rs won in 2010 (putting aside how much that choice was pro R as opposed to anti D/frustration with the crap economy), and you're going to face a much less Foxified set of voters this year.

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:19:05

JH, what you're missing is that if the Republicans put together a sane ticket, they'd win this election hands down.
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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Werthless » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:41:09

TenuredVulture wrote:JH, what you're missing is that if the Republicans put together a sane ticket, they'd win this election hands down.
What Republican ticket would you support? What "sane" ticket would crush?

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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby drsmooth » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:57:35

jerseyhoya wrote:Were you in a coma in 2010?


it's 2012
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Re: I hope you RECALL that this is the POLITICS thread

Postby Doll Is Mine » Wed Aug 15, 2012 13:17:01

The problem with the 2010 argument as it relates to the ACA is that people aren't as apprehensive about it as they were then. It also helps that the Republican-led Supreme Court voted that it's constitutional.

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