TenuredVulture wrote:

Swiggers wrote:The problem is the word "build." In the literal sense, the passage is correct, but in the figurative sense, it isn't. And most people interpret "build a business" in the figurative sense. Extremely tone-deaf writing there.

You think if one of these so-called captains of industry was alone on a desert island they'd be able to build much more than a hut? The capitalist system is one of interdependence, and government plays a decisive role in its success. Anyone who denies it must also deny there's any difference between starting a business in the US and starting one in Somalia. Again, you only need to read a bit of Hayek to understand this point.

Again, you're reading "build" in the literal sense, but most people who read that passage aren't.

I don't disagree with your point, and theirs, but I do think their wording was EXTREMELY ill-chosen.

Nancy Pelosi applauds John Boehner's Jimmy Cagney impression in a rare show of bipartisan levity.

Is he about to say "YOU DIRTY RAT!," or is he about to cry?

The democrats have team Romney on the ropes with this Bain thing. Was he part of Bain or not. Did Bain just pay him for being a good guy? Did Romney know anything at all while being paid a nominal $100K or so with the role of CEO. If not, how was he the Chief Exec(danger Will Robinson), and how does this relate to who he is? Obviously the Dems have the tiger by the tail here and they are swinging him around. Look how easily they get Mitt and the whole GOP talking about Chicago politics (that gangster Obama) and how unfair it is to point to the uber rich dude. Seriously, political gamesmanship points to team Obama.

Next up, where your tax return Mitt? I think I heard Mitt say that he will release it when his accounts are done with it. Many Americans simultaneously looked at their calendars to make sure that Mitt has not filed yet... three months past due. Sure, it is an filed extension, but three plus months grace period for a guy who had no income, thus plenty of time to prepare. Looks like taking advantage of the system (theme music now). About those other tax returns, none of your business. Mitt is in trouble here as the presidency needs transparency. He is just making it easy for the dems. Then there are the questions around his changes to his returns when he was running for Gov (apparently he has not learned much about how to avoid this trouble).

Batting third this inning of mudfest... foreign bank accounts. Good God, learn a freaking lesson. The exist. Its known. How much and where are not known, which means we all get to guess. {Caymans, Switzerland, Cyprus, etc. Zillions. Money ill gotten and hiding because of it.} This is just amazing. Mitt has to come clean. Unless it is something that he is paying taxes on, he needs to go the amnesty route (I think that is still available). Even if he is paid in full, he needs to be open about it. The who, what, when, where and why will just gut him. It will reign supreme in terms of stupidity to try to play the 'who is out of touch' game with these things hanging over his head.

Overall, Mitt is making it easy for Obama and this is the low hanging fruit. Pretty pathetic. I so miss John Huntsman.

thephan wrote:The democrats have team Romney on the ropes with this Bain thing. Was he part of Bain or not. Did Bain just pay him for being a good guy? Did Romney know anything at all while being paid a nominal $100K or so with the role of CEO. If not, how was he the Chief Exec(danger Will Robinson), and how does this relate to who he is? Obviously the Dems have the tiger by the tail here and they are swinging him around. Look how easily they get Mitt and the whole GOP talking about Chicago politics (that gangster Obama) and how unfair it is to point to the uber rich dude. Seriously, political gamesmanship points to team Obama.

Next up, where your tax return Mitt? I think I heard Mitt say that he will release it when his accounts are done with it. Many Americans simultaneously looked at their calendars to make sure that Mitt has not filed yet... three months past due. Sure, it is an filed extension, but three plus months grace period for a guy who had no income, thus plenty of time to prepare. Looks like taking advantage of the system (theme music now). About those other tax returns, none of your business. Mitt is in trouble here as the presidency needs transparency. He is just making it easy for the dems. Then there are the questions around his changes to his returns when he was running for Gov (apparently he has not learned much about how to avoid this trouble).

Batting third this inning of mudfest... foreign bank accounts. Good God, learn a freaking lesson. The exist. Its known. How much and where are not known, which means we all get to guess. {Caymans, Switzerland, Cyprus, etc. Zillions. Money ill gotten and hiding because of it.} This is just amazing. Mitt has to come clean. Unless it is something that he is paying taxes on, he needs to go the amnesty route (I think that is still available). Even if he is paid in full, he needs to be open about it. The who, what, when, where and why will just gut him. It will reign supreme in terms of stupidity to try to play the 'who is out of touch' game with these things hanging over his head.

Overall, Mitt is making it easy for Obama and this is the low hanging fruit. Pretty pathetic. I so miss John Huntsman.

He's John Kerry, 2012 version. Completely fucking up what should be an utterly winnable election for the minority party.

thephan wrote:Did Romney know anything at all while being paid a nominal $100K or so with the role of CEO.

Here's the thing - Romney was a millionaire dozens of times over by this point and was the company's sole shareholder (according to SEC documents). Does anybody truly believe that, as the company's sole shareholder and given that Bain was no doubt the bulk of his net worth, he had no input (or at least was not consulted) into the direction of his multi-million dollar investment, i.e. the company? Even the most ardent Romney supporter has to know that Romney had at least passing input into any significant investment that Bain made at that time. I have no proof of this other than it is common sense.

traderdave wrote:....Does anybody truly believe that, as the company's sole shareholder and given that Bain was no doubt the bulk of his net worth, he had no input (or at least was not consulted) into the direction of his multi-million dollar investment, i.e. the company? Even the most ardent Romney supporter has to know that Romney had at least passing input into any significant investment that Bain made at that time.....

I'm a bit of a broken record on this, but if Mitt's fit to wear the mantle of Defender of Capitalism, he has to - HAS to - be able to explain to us among the great unwashed how all of this Private Ownership Is The Apex of Civilization stuff works, and is good for everybody, not just him. It's what his candidacy is about, if it's about anything at all.

I think being paid a "token" sum of 100k is the kind of thing lots of people can relate to.

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

thephan wrote:The democrats have team Romney on the ropes with this Bain thing. Was he part of Bain or not. Did Bain just pay him for being a good guy? Did Romney know anything at all while being paid a nominal $100K or so with the role of CEO. If not, how was he the Chief Exec(danger Will Robinson), and how does this relate to who he is? Obviously the Dems have the tiger by the tail here and they are swinging him around. Look how easily they get Mitt and the whole GOP talking about Chicago politics (that gangster Obama) and how unfair it is to point to the uber rich dude. Seriously, political gamesmanship points to team Obama.

Next up, where your tax return Mitt? I think I heard Mitt say that he will release it when his accounts are done with it. Many Americans simultaneously looked at their calendars to make sure that Mitt has not filed yet... three months past due. Sure, it is an filed extension, but three plus months grace period for a guy who had no income, thus plenty of time to prepare. Looks like taking advantage of the system (theme music now). About those other tax returns, none of your business. Mitt is in trouble here as the presidency needs transparency. He is just making it easy for the dems. Then there are the questions around his changes to his returns when he was running for Gov (apparently he has not learned much about how to avoid this trouble).

Batting third this inning of mudfest... foreign bank accounts. Good God, learn a freaking lesson. The exist. Its known. How much and where are not known, which means we all get to guess. {Caymans, Switzerland, Cyprus, etc. Zillions. Money ill gotten and hiding because of it.} This is just amazing. Mitt has to come clean. Unless it is something that he is paying taxes on, he needs to go the amnesty route (I think that is still available). Even if he is paid in full, he needs to be open about it. The who, what, when, where and why will just gut him. It will reign supreme in terms of stupidity to try to play the 'who is out of touch' game with these things hanging over his head.

Overall, Mitt is making it easy for Obama and this is the low hanging fruit. Pretty pathetic. I so miss John Huntsman.

He's John Kerry, 2012 version. Completely fucking up what should be an utterly winnable election for the minority party.

a) Bush had a 53% approval rating in the exit poll on election day

b) It's July, let's see how the next four months go

another racist Republican

Truth is, some conservatives lamented that he had indeed “grown” in office. He had gone out of his way to accommodate liberals and moderates, and to accommodate the Kremlin. He was raising taxes, spending like crazy, welcoming wetbacks, pursuing arms control. One common cry from the right was, “None of this would be happening if Ronald Reagan were alive.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/30 ... nordlinger

You do realize he was paraphrasing comments made about Reagan in the '80's right?

ya I read the article. not even a moderately good excuse.

drsmooth wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

Youseff wrote:I guess you're better at reading nuance and subtext than me because I don't see him saying that at all.

He said "If you've got a business -- you didn't build that."

I think you're looking too hard at nuance and subtext and not looking at the plain English of what he said. It's either badly written or poorly delivered.

Parsing transcripts of speeches is a fool's errand

/takeittothecontroversialopinionsthread

Wow

just saw a vidclip of the portion of the speech this was taken from. I wish to underscore my assertion.

Ok, I underscored it.

jerseyhoya wrote:a) Bush had a 53% approval rating in the exit poll on election day

b) It's July, let's see how the next four months go

A long way to go, but team mit is making it easy for Obama's second term. Huge damage comes from a poll that says the majority feel Obama part two is inevitable. To play the arrogant card just will not work, he is just giving no reason to trust him. The devil you know come into play here.

BTW, I am hearing a lot of Military going the OBL is dead route/promise delivered.

Colbert is going at Romney pretty hard right now.

I don't think all that much of the essay, but even David Brooks is showing signs of getting it

The terrible price of a Korean defection - Who the fuck defects to North Korea?

thephan wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:a) Bush had a 53% approval rating in the exit poll on election day

b) It's July, let's see how the next four months go

A long way to go, but team mit is making it easy for Obama's second term. Huge damage comes from a poll that says the majority feel Obama part two is inevitable. To play the arrogant card just will not work, he is just giving no reason to trust him. The devil you know come into play here.

BTW, I am hearing a lot of Military going the OBL is dead route/promise delivered.

It's July, let's see how the next four months go.

Obama is currently ahead of Romney 46.6-44.5% in the RCP poll average. Come on now.

I guess Issa is keeping his promise of investigating the hell out of anyone he can in the Obama admin. Notice how he is investigating dems for all the same issues as the Bush admin got in trouble for. The latest is investigating any possible use of tax dollars in cabinet member talks at Obama's Superpac. Nevermind that no cabinet members have even spoken to his superpac. It's all about tit for tat. You hold our AG in contempt, we hold yours in contempt. You find that we had cabinet members misusing taxpayer money by using government meetings to discuss campaign strategy and whatnot, we investigate your cabinet members for possible misuse of taxpayer money for campaign related reasons.

I've said this before, but a big part of the GOP strategy is just to say dems are doing whatever they are doing or want to do themselves. It makes it hard for people who don't pay much attention to see the differences in the parties. Issa is just muddying the water.

He's right though, of course. You guys are just as bad as his guys.