swishnicholson wrote:According to today's NYT crossword puzzle, the word bandanna comes to us from Hindi.


Thanks, td!

i had no idea, but my ma confirmed. u welcome!

cummerbund and juggernaut are two others i can think of

sometimes people ask me what religion i am, "are you hindi?"

SK790 wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:

SK790 wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:

SK790 wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Now that I think about it, there is an argument to be made that if nationalism was more prominent throughout the developing world, overall violence would decline steeply. Sectarian violence FTL.

Sectarianism is basically nationalism but instead of being overly proud of your nation, you're overly proud of some other entity.

Oh, you don't say?

My point is that people like to shit on nationalism, but there is a strong argument to be made it would be prudent to try build nationalism around the rest of the world. I think pacino probably appreciates this, but I thought I'd point it out anyway.

I don't see how at all. Strong beliefs that where you're from is inherently better than where someone else is from leads to bad things. I'll agree that sectarianism is just as bad as nationalism, though.

Intrastate conflict is arguably the biggest problem facing the developing world. More nationalism, less intrastate violence.

Yes, lets eliminate intrastate conflict by creating interstate conflict. Brilliant.

There is no magic bullet. But we can be pretty sure that lack of nationalism around the developing world is a PROBLEM.

It's hard to find an equilibrium with nationalism. Some countries need to tone it down, others need to start identifying more strongly as a nation if they want to survive. There is no magic bullet, but to say NATIONALISM IS BAD FOREVER AND ALWAYS is an easy out, and really uniformed.

I'm sipping rum and watching Iron Man. I can go into this further, but I won't answer until tomorrow. In the meantime if you are really interested, you should look into buying Development as Freedom by Amartya Sen and Getting Better by Charles Kenny. I know Kenny devotes a decent portion of the book to nationalism and I believe Sen touches on it as well.

i'm hindi. take me to india next time you go

pretty much errwhere, it's ganna be hot

my cousin lives in a penthouse, i think. he hedges funds

SK790 wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:I'm not saying nationalism is a universal good, but it is far from a universal bad. People don't seem to get that. There is a practical and needed purpose for nationalism around the world.

what's the practical need?

Nationalism can be a useful tool when you're building a state. If you feel a relationship with fellow citizens, it not only can help avoid civil war and other violence that prevents a state from consolidating, it can also help with things like voluntary tax payments and the construction of basic social welfare provisions. A lack of nationalism has really hurt state building in many African and Middle Eastern countries where the borders are artificial and loyalties fall to tribal or ethnic groups rather than one's national identity.

I'm fucking tired right now

The Nightman Cometh wrote:

SK790 wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:

SK790 wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:

SK790 wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Now that I think about it, there is an argument to be made that if nationalism was more prominent throughout the developing world, overall violence would decline steeply. Sectarian violence FTL.

Sectarianism is basically nationalism but instead of being overly proud of your nation, you're overly proud of some other entity.

Oh, you don't say?

My point is that people like to #$!&@ on nationalism, but there is a strong argument to be made it would be prudent to try build nationalism around the rest of the world. I think pacino probably appreciates this, but I thought I'd point it out anyway.

I don't see how at all. Strong beliefs that where you're from is inherently better than where someone else is from leads to bad things. I'll agree that sectarianism is just as bad as nationalism, though.

Intrastate conflict is arguably the biggest problem facing the developing world. More nationalism, less intrastate violence.

Yes, lets eliminate intrastate conflict by creating interstate conflict. Brilliant.

There is no magic bullet. But we can be pretty sure that lack of nationalism around the developing world is a PROBLEM.

It's hard to find an equilibrium with nationalism. Some countries need to tone it down, others need to start identifying more strongly as a nation if they want to survive. There is no magic bullet, but to say NATIONALISM IS BAD FOREVER AND ALWAYS is an easy out, and really uniformed.

I'm sipping rum and watching Iron Man. I can go into this further, but I won't answer until tomorrow. In the meantime if you are really interested, you should look into buying Development as Freedom by Amartya Sen and Getting Better by Charles Kenny. I know Kenny devotes a decent portion of the book to nationalism and I believe Sen touches on it as well.

Well, expecting nationalistic feelings when third-world country lines have often arbitrarily determined by first-world nations thousands of miles away is pretty ridiculous. It's quite a different story when your nation has experienced virtually nothing but self-determination.

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Well, expecting nationalistic feelings when third-world country lines have often arbitrarily determined by first-world nations thousands of miles away is pretty ridiculous. It's quite a different story when your nation has experienced virtually nothing but self-determination.

I don't think our hero mp is suggesting there should be an expectation of nationalist feelings in these countries, just that the countries would be better off in a number of ways if a nationalist sentiment did exist within their haphazardly drawn borders.

jerseyhoya wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Well, expecting nationalistic feelings when third-world country lines have often arbitrarily determined by first-world nations thousands of miles away is pretty ridiculous. It's quite a different story when your nation has experienced virtually nothing but self-determination.

I don't think our hero mp is suggesting there should be an expectation of nationalist feelings in these countries, just that the countries would be better off in a number of ways if a nationalist sentiment did exist within their haphazardly drawn borders.

They'd also be better off with sewage and plumbing infrastructure.

Jokes aside, my point is that, as far as they're concerned, sectarianism IS nationalism. There are very few examples of third-world nations where the various ethnicities/religions coexist in the same cities/regions, yet remain hostile to each other. So IMO, he's arguing a strawman. Without some type of self-determination, constructive nationalism simply cannot exist. (I use that phrase not as a term of art but to differentiate from the type of forced, destructive nationalism often associated with dictatorships or totalitarian regimes.)

If self determination happens in Africa and the Middle East it will be a nightmare. Hundreds of countries with a government too small to be an effective state. Self determination isn't a universal good.

It's not a straw man, it's an identifiable problem without an easy solution.

i want to read the GoT thread but i haven't seen the finale yet.

then dont read it dude.

Juggernaut is a great word

Houshphandzadeh wrote:Juggernaut is a great word

I'd like to see more Nationalistic Juggernauts. It would solve a lot of problems in Africa and other places.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:Juggernaut is a great word

I had the same thought. Way to go Hindi

The Nightman Cometh wrote:If self determination happens in Africa and the Middle East it will be a nightmare. Hundreds of countries with a government too small to be an effective state. Self determination isn't a universal good.

It's not a straw man, it's an identifiable problem without an easy solution.

So basically we either need a continent-scale World Cup (i.e., Africa vs. Europe vs. Asia, etc.) that lasts all year every year. Either that or an alien invasion to create human solidarity.

There, I just solved the problem.

When I was a kid we had to do a play in school about an alien invasion of the world. The aliens thought they were gonna kick the world's ass because we were always doing wars like a bunch of gangsters. But the aliens didn't know we had the United Nations now and we didn't do World War II shit any more and we were all united and stuff. So we had collective security and cooperation and the UN was a great thing.

That's the Commie stuff they had us little kids believing in the late 60s.

Also the hippies that ran the schools back then made the teachers tell us that slavery was NOT a cause of the Civil War.