dajafi wrote:I don't agree with pretty much any of it, but already this looks like the most effective SotU response since Jim Webb followed Bush in 2007.

One of the talking heads on Fox (Krauthammer I think) speculated that Daniels might be an option for the nomination if things get crazy with Newt and Mitt.

cshort wrote:

dajafi wrote:I don't agree with pretty much any of it, but already this looks like the most effective SotU response since Jim Webb followed Bush in 2007.

One of the talking heads on Fox (Krauthammer I think) speculated that Daniels might be an option for the nomination if things get crazy with Newt and Mitt.

A late compromise candidate will have to be broadly acceptable to all parts of the party. Daniels would be a nonstarter, I think, because of his social issues truce stuff.

I really think Jeb is the only one who could definitely pull it off, with Bobby Jindal as the only other realistic possibility. Christie can't plausibly jump in having backed Romney so steadfastly. I don't think anyone else has the public profile to try and jump in.

jerseyhoya wrote:If I start a rumor that Jeb Bush is going to get into the race if Newt wins Florida will that make it happen

Please?

The Bush name is still pretty toxic. If the goal is for the GOP to take the White House, Christie or Daniels might be a better idea.

Warszawa wrote:Surprised that Mitch Daniels opened his speech by saying Obama didn't cause the current economic disaster. There still seems to a lot of confusion out there about who did what around the time of the economic collapse of 2008 and the Bush-Obama transition. I think a lot of people actually believe that Obama did cause the collapse (somehow). Usually the republicans like to blame Obama for everything, even things he's not responsible for so I thought they might as well throw that against the wall too.

There is a lot of confusion. A lot of people think it was mostly Bush's fault.

Swiggers wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:If I start a rumor that Jeb Bush is going to get into the race if Newt wins Florida will that make it happen

Please?

The Bush name is still pretty toxic. If the goal is for the GOP to take the White House, Christie or Daniels might be a better idea.

Beggars can't be choosers. Jeb is the only person with a stature big enough within the party to start right now and win the nomination. Even if he didn't stand a significantly better chance at beating Obama than Romney and Newt especially (though I think he does), he'd be a much better president so it's worth the roll of the dice on that point.

Dems can say don't vote for him, his brother was a crappy president. Jeb could respond don't vote for the president, he's a crappy president.

It's not happening either, but a kid can dream.

One figured this would be a year where the GOP would throw out some of their best candidates, since their base hates Obama and desperately wants to see him defeated, and the economy is still iffy enough that independents might want a change in the White House.

Instead, they come up with a clueless opportunist and a bunch of crackpots. Why?

Jindal is a bit of a mystery to me. He was a high flying face of the future, then he sort of packed his bags and disappeared back to LA politics.

Swiggers wrote:One figured this would be a year where the GOP would throw out some of their best candidates, since their base hates Obama and desperately wants to see him defeated, and the economy is still iffy enough that independents might want a change in the White House.

Instead, they come up with a clueless opportunist and a bunch of crackpots. Why?

Because a lot of people lost or retired in 2006 and 2008 who had been moving up the ladder in the Senate (George Allen, Rick Santorum, Jim Talent, etc.). And we didn't really win any governors races in those years so GOP governors in the middle of their second term, often the strongest presidential candidates, don't much exist.

Mitch Daniels' wife didn't want him to run. Christie has only been governor for 2 years. Haley Barbour is fat white guy from Mississippi. Jeb's last name is Bush. Jindal gave a crappy State of the Union response so decided to be governor for 8 years then reassess where he was at. Pawlenty ran a dumb campaign where he ran out of money. Rick Perry turned out to be a moron.

Plus the base is angry and prefers people who yell a lot at Obama to other credentials which used to matter more like not being Newt Gingrich.

I agree swiggers. Obama inherits American Government when it most resembles an AMC Gremlin. Ugly, dysfunctional, hard to fix, slightly rusty and an over all POS. What he has done with that poor hand is not much, not that anyone could have. He has more or less just called out the division that has existed for more then 12 year and has only gotten worse. That is where the business of politics has become politics, not the business of serving the people. My point is this, the White House is ripe for the taking.

So what does the GOP do? They "allow" a passel of egotists and idiots to make a run for the office. You have to marvel that this is what should be considered the best of what America has to offer, but what we get is a bucket of slop. It is very disheartening.

I would again say that a rather complete turn over would serve us well. People want term limits, well all it takes is using your vote to make it happen.

jerseyhoya wrote:Plus the base is angry and prefers people who yell a lot at Obama to other credentials which used to matter more like not being Newt Gingrich.

+1

Swiggers wrote:Instead, they come up with a clueless opportunist and a bunch of crackpots. Why?

you go with what you got

people who disdain governance wind up being clueless about it, or worse, have the craziest notions about it

"freedom freedom freedom"
duhhhhhhh

The dead cat story is sickening. Apparently the cat's head was bashed in and an eye was hanging out of the socket.

I happened upon a picture of the cat by accident. An ugly sight.

It's not just that the base is fired up, it's a lot of previously inattentive people became part of the base. But since they aren't well informed, it became relatively easy to get them to believe things like "McCain lost because he's a moderate" and "Obama is a socialist" and so forth.

To me, the hall mark of ignorance is when someone says "the founders created a republic, not a democracy". What's the difference? I mean, I can go on for awhile about the signification of the two terms, but to understand it requires at least a cursory knowledge of the history of political thought and political rhetoric. Moreover, republican in this sense has historically been leftist--indeed, in Europe, some socialist types have been trotting out republicanism to justify economic intervention. And then you get people on the right claiming Thomas Paine as one of their intellectual ancestors. Really? Have you read any Paine?

I like to think of myself as engaged in policy and politics but I don't even watch the SOTU speech anymore. Its become the most uninspiring stupid to-do list reading exercise and applause measuring standing ovation counting nonsense theatre.

Squire wrote:I like to think of myself as engaged in policy and politics but I don't even watch the SOTU speech anymore. Its become the most uninspiring stupid to-do list reading exercise and applause measuring standing ovation counting nonsense theatre.

It's probably been mostly about that ever since Wilson decided to deliver it "live", rather than the Prez merely sending congress a memo as had been the practice for the previous 100 yrs.

drsmooth wrote:

Squire wrote:I like to think of myself as engaged in policy and politics but I don't even watch the SOTU speech anymore. Its become the most uninspiring stupid to-do list reading exercise and applause measuring standing ovation counting nonsense theatre.

It's probably been mostly about that ever since Wilson decided to deliver it "live", rather than the Prez merely sending congress a memo as had been the practice for the previous 100 yrs.

What's the 19th Century equivalent of "tl; dr"?

The socialist stuff is stupid. America has social programs and therefore has a "socialist" component. Reach out and touch the Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, or any of the other social programs. None of the whackos understand that their retirement, which they view as their god given right, is a social program.

Now look at the power house economy in Europe and the continued value of the Euro (note: the strength of the currency is different the the market value) and see "who" is behind this value. It is essentially Germany, one of those socialist countries with social medicine, state sponsored education (about $1,500/year for university students), etc. et. al. Germany is a country that the US established and an economy that continues to thrive in many sectors. Socialism is not necessarily a prescription of for failure and more then a few mental midgets confuse it with Communism at the most extreme or relate it to extreme socialist rule (pre-war Germany and Italy as models -- boo, scare you, didn't I?).

jerseyhoya wrote:Mitch Daniels' wife didn't want him to run. Christie has only been governor for 2 years. Haley Barbour is fat white guy from Mississippi. Jeb's last name is Bush. Jindal gave a crappy State of the Union response so decided to be governor for 8 years then reassess where he was at. Pawlenty ran a dumb campaign where he ran out of money. Rick Perry turned out to be a moron.

Plus the base is angry and prefers people who yell a lot at Obama to other credentials which used to matter more like not being Newt Gingrich.

Mitch Daniels' wife didn't want to answer questions about why she left her husband and kids in Indiana to marry another guy on California, then divorced him to remarry Mitch. Id love to hear that story, not for political purposes, but because it is so intriguing.

lethal wrote:
Mitch Daniels' wife didn't want to answer questions about why she left her husband and kids in Indiana to marry another guy on California, then divorced him to remarry Mitch. Id love to hear that story, not for political purposes, but because it is so intriguing.

You already know the political answer... Youthful indiscretion. Always is, no matter how old you are/were, only as long as it is a few years in your past.