well, the whole thing has collapsed in a sweaty sort of "Falling Down" crankathon

a 10 cuts to 1 revenues solution would not cause ANY on the platform to waver from their refusal to raise taxes

let's just run Norquist why don't we

drsmooth wrote:well, the whole thing has collapsed in a sweaty sort of "Falling Down" crankathon

a 10 cuts to 1 revenues solution would not cause ANY on the platform to waver from their refusal to raise taxes

let's just run Norquist why don't we

hes short and fat; we want chiseled chins, not double chins, as our candidates. he will pull hte strings

oh wow they're on health care now

pathetic

Ron Paul letting his foreign policy freak flag fly

makes hash of saber-rattler santorum

bachmann on iran - her head is so empty she may float away

Rick Santorum ready to go to war with Iran, which he views as the greatest threat to the US in the middle east

Just listened to santorum's views in support of imposing criminal sanctions on doctors who perform abortions, even in cases of rape:

In what Pennsylvania mental institution did Rick Santorum come of age?

if her debate performance doesn't hurt bachmann, there's ergot in the Iowa corn crop

there was a rumor Huntsman was part of this debate. While I was not paying rapt attention to the telecast, I think those rumors were unfounded.

drsmooth wrote:Just listened to santorum's views in support of imposing criminal sanctions on doctors who perform abortions, even in cases of rape:

In what Pennsylvania mental institution did Rick Santorum come of age?

Perhaps, a sanatorium :teehee:

Is it possible that the GOP is so deep in the forest that they really do not see the hypocrisy of their "small government" positions against a landscape of constantly wanting to legislate morality? Not totally on point to my comment above (other than it is a great example of GOP hypocrisy), but this is yet more genius from Jon Stewart:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-a ... ntolerance

"This is the problem with entitlements. They are really only entitlements when they are something other people want. When its something you want, they're the hallmark of a civilized society; the foundation of a great people. I just had a baby and found out that maternity leave strengthens society. But since I still have a job, unemployment benefits are clearly socialism." - Jon Stewart

Bigger waste of time: Preseason football or preseason presidential debate?

Sure some of the bottom feeders just confirmed their place, but I did not learn anything except that they all fear the tea party. A raised hand to bankrupt the country was telling.

I always enjoy the refusal to acknowledge how low the current tax rates are. Americans currently pay their lowest taxes in 60 years. Using a family of 4 scenario: average income tax rate under Reagan in 1983 was 11.06%; Clinton in 1992 was 9.18 percent; and Obama in 2010 was 4.68 percent. For seven of Reagan’s eight years in office, the top tax rate was higher than the current 35 percent and for six of those years, it was 50 percent or greater. And every year that Regan was in office, the bottom tax bracket was higher than the current ten percent. We need to pay more taxes to get us out of this hole, period. Doing anything other than revising the tax code is ignorant. The alternative would seem to be a looking for the chance to live a third world lifestyle, no services, eroding infrastructure, security concerns, massive poverty, disease, environmental catastrophe,etc.

thephan wrote:Bigger waste of time: Preseason football or preseason presidential debate?

Sure some of the bottom feeders just confirmed their place, but I did not learn anything except that they all fear the tea party. A raised hand to bankrupt the country was telling.

I always enjoy the refusal to acknowledge how low the current tax rates are. Americans currently pay their lowest taxes in 60 years. Using a family of 4 scenario: average income tax rate under Reagan in 1983 was 11.06%; Clinton in 1992 was 9.18 percent; and Obama in 2010 was 4.68 percent. For seven of Reagan’s eight years in office, the top tax rate was higher than the current 35 percent and for six of those years, it was 50 percent or greater. And every year that Regan was in office, the bottom tax bracket was higher than the current ten percent. We need to pay more taxes to get us out of this hole, period. Doing anything other than revising the tax code is ignorant. The alternative would seem to be a looking for the chance to live a third world lifestyle, no services, eroding infrastructure, security concerns, massive poverty, disease, environmental catastrophe,etc.

It still amazes me that those in DC continue to think there is any other way to see it. When you are short of funds at home, you cut back on glitzy vacations, you shop at Penny's instead of Nordstrom and cancel channels 5,000 through 10,000 on Comcast to help out. When the shortage starts getting to the point where you need to start cutting back on food purchases or you cannot pay the mortgage, you do not say, "Ahhh, screw it. The kids will just have to deal with one meal today." You go out and get a second job to increase income. This country, as the GOP would certainly have us believe, is at the point where we can no longer pay our mortgage.

I cannot wait to the see the crap this debt group is gonna start putting out in a couple of weeks. When one side goes in saying "There is no way we will agree to raise taxes", what is the point of even continuing the process?

keep telling my mom that we need to raise taxes. she's keeps stubborningly saying that she already pays enough and that others need to pay taxes before they raise her taxes. says she can't afford anymore taxes. yet delaware has the lowest property tax rate and an already low state/federal income tax. i don't really get it.

jamiethekiller wrote:keep telling my mom that we need to raise taxes. she's keeps stubborningly saying that she already pays enough and that others need to pay taxes before they raise her taxes. says she can't afford anymore taxes. yet delaware has the lowest property tax rate and an already low state/federal income tax. i don't really get it.

Delaware doesn't have a sales tax either, correct?

jamiethekiller wrote:keep telling my mom that we need to raise taxes. she's keeps stubborningly saying that she already pays enough and that others need to pay taxes before they raise her taxes. says she can't afford anymore taxes. yet delaware has the lowest property tax rate and an already low state/federal income tax. i don't really get it.

Well, here's how that works. The answer is that the economy hasn't been good for 30+ years and during that time, real middle- and lower-class wages have fallen. The increase in two-worker families kept things going for a while, then borrowing kept things going longer, now people are truly strapped and have no way of maintaining their standard of living. So... even though their taxes have been lower than they've been in decades, they are still higher than they can afford to pay. Ironically, as they are less able to pay taxes and more anti-government, they are also more dependent upon government, in many cases wholly dependent upon government, for their retirement -- healthcare, roof over their heads, the whole works. They do not like this sense of dependency, so they feel angry. Americans have less saved for retirement than in a generation and this is happening as standard pensions are disappearing. So... 'keep your government hands of my Medicare' and 'my taxes are too high'.

Government is partly to blame for the lousy economy, but the root cause is that we got used to a high and constantly rising standard of living in the 50s and early 60s. This great economic success was not due to anything that we did really great on the economic or governance front, it was mainly a result of all of our competitors being bombed out by WWII and the world being awash in pent-up demand. WWII also unleashed an imperial America, in which its citizens felt high from seeing their military and government basically running the world. Americans didn't want any of this to stop, it felt so good, but it was not sustainable. Starting with LBJ, Presidents decided that Americans did not want to hear any bad news, so we got guns and butter from LBJ, culminating in the stop taxing, big spending, don't regulate anyone who might give a campaign contribution efforts of President George W Bush to simply mushroom the deficit, while his VP intoned 'Reagan proved that deficits don't matter'.

So, the good times have been artificially goosed along as much as is possible and we are where we are. People are unhappy about that. Reality sucks. Now we're back to the magic of 'tax cuts pay for themselves'. This is really a classic reaction to a sinking enterprise. Everyone sees a big problem and rather than fix the big problem, they want to grab as many final pieces of cake for themselves, before the whole melting pile of goop slides off the table and some unnamed adult is left to clean up the mess.

allentown wrote:Government is partly to blame for the lousy economy, but the root cause is that we got used to a high and constantly rising standard of living in the 50s and early 60s. This great economic success was not due to anything that we did really great on the economic or governance front, it was mainly a result of all of our competitors being bombed out by WWII and the world being awash in pent-up demand. WWII also unleashed an imperial America, in which its citizens felt high from seeing their military and government basically running the world.

i highly recommend reading up on the gilded age.

traderdave wrote:It still amazes me that those in DC continue to think there is any other way to see it. When you are short of funds at home, you cut back on glitzy vacations, you shop at Penny's instead of Nordstrom and cancel channels 5,000 through 10,000 on Comcast to help out. When the shortage starts getting to the point where you need to start cutting back on food purchases or you cannot pay the mortgage, you do not say, "Ahhh, screw it. The kids will just have to deal with one meal today." You go out and get a second job to increase income. This country, as the GOP would certainly have us believe, is at the point where we can no longer pay our mortgage.

I cannot wait to the see the crap this debt group is gonna start putting out in a couple of weeks. When one side goes in saying "There is no way we will agree to raise taxes", what is the point of even continuing the process?

I live in "D.C."! Well, I work in technology, so I am not part of that particular problem. I will say that I think that good old Nordstroms is doing just fine with the rather clueless set. I will say, however, I did see a massive sale there and my wife bought something for $25 that seemed reasonable, so maybe Nordstroms gets it. That was our first Nordstrom purchase ever in over 20 years, so I am just guessing, but it never seemed like a bargain.

On to the meet to continue the discussion... Obama commissioned a group to look at this problem and the results were somewhere between rejected and ignored. I believe that the recommendation was to raise taxes, cut spending and seriously review "entitlement programs". Again, summarily ignored. Now this debt team full of political hucksters will do what?!? Nothing worth talking about I guess.

I was taught that there would be no social security when it came my time. I was told that those who came before me have an expectation and they paid in, but that it was a failed concept and would fold under its own weight. The expectation for me was that I would need to pay into something I would see no benefit from. So be it. I am happy to both pay in and get nothing out of it (mortgage anyone?), but why can the generation that set the expectation not grasp this very failure? Anyone remember the idea of retirement meaning that you would scale back? You life would not be owning a cult winery, vacationing in Tahiti as part of a two year around the world jaunt, drive a BMW or Harley, etc. et. al. Knock, knock, knock. Who is it? Reality. No one is home. Please.

Hey, 50 is the new 20. Get ready to earn slightly more then minimum wage and work you arse off. Suck to look at reality. It sucks more to watch my future flushed in the market (401K and 529) because of the stupidity of the generation ahead of me (and some of my generation unfortunately). So cry yourself to sleep with a view of reality, not even a new reality.

Phan is right--fucking hippies ruined everything. We should have seen it coming when we saw how they ruined rock and roll.