jeff2sf wrote:Please see my thoughts in this post. It's time to have kids, dajafi, and chill out. viewtopi ... &start=555.html

If kids is not an option for certain reasons, borrow a family member's.

Why do you have to have kids to have an opinion on them? I don't have kids, and don't plan to have them, but I share Dajafi's feelings that they're freaking annoying -- and I'm on my way to getting certified to teach (high school, mind you).

When you bring annoying kids on a plane, you're inconveniencing others, similar to smoking a cigarette, or blaring loud music.

It would be an awful venture from a business perspective (for any venue), but there's nothing I'd like to see more than parents charged more for lugging their dirty, loud, smelly, annoying children around.

The only thing more annoying than kids is the parents who love them.

Let me guess, crash, you don't want to bring them into this world because "you're afraid to bring them into a society as crappy as this". you're the socialist liberal type that would think that.

you're 22 or whatever, you don't know bleep about bleep, so you have no good opinions on children, and of course, you probably shouldn't want children at your age.

Bringing someone's age into the equation to dismiss their opinion is pretty weak.

Children aren't special jeff.

Some children are special. They usually wear helmets.

jeff2sf wrote:Let me guess, crash, you don't want to bring them into this world because "you're afraid to bring them into a society as crappy as this". you're the socialist liberal type that would think that.

My reasons are plenty, but one of them is that American society is pretty awful. I don't deny my role in that as I'm pretty lame myself (see below).

Another reason is that I'm nice enough to make the decision not to pollute the gene pool with my mediocre DNA.

Another reason is that the last thing this planet needs is more people -- we're approaching 7 billion. More people = more pollution and more disease.

On a side note, I'm not sure why you mentioned my economic opinions with regard to social issues. I'm a libertarian socially, so the two mindsets aren't related in the least. Just food for thought.

jeff2sf wrote:you're 22 or whatever, you don't know bleep about bleep, so you have no good opinions on children, and of course, you probably shouldn't want children at your age.

As mentioned, this is an ad hominem. My opinions on children are just as valid as yours. I could just as easily say"you have kids, so you're biased" but I won't, because that's an ad hominem as well.

Not that I'm doing a whole lot to help this, but keeping a strong birthrate is important to a healthy, functioning society. It's why a whole lot of Western Europe is so fucked up.

but one of them is that American society is pretty awful

Pretty objectively false, but whatever

You posting that sort of refutes it.

pacino wrote:

but one of them is that American society is pretty awful

Pretty objectively false, but whatever

You posting that sort of refutes it.

Here's an example of why American society is pretty awful.

People in the United States are much less likely to accept Darwin's idea that humans and apes share a common ancestor than adults in other Western nations, a number of surveys show.

Another example:

The scores from the 2006 Program for International Student Assessment showed that U.S. 15-year-olds trailed their peers from many industrialized countries. The average science score of U.S. students lagged behind those in 16 of 30 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a Paris-based group that represents the world's richest countries. The U.S. students were further behind in math, trailing counterparts in 23 countries.

Look at the top TV shows. Not one of them is intellectually stimulating.

We love TV but hate books. Freaking Cuba is more literate than the U.S.

Just a few reasons why I have a pessimistic view of American society.

6 months ago the Mike's Hard Lemonade ads were all about being tough guys in a pussified politically correct America (while blatantly stereotyping gay men in a negative manor).

Now I just saw one that casually mentioned they now have a pomegranate flavored lemonade.

Uncle Milty wrote:Don't sweat it crash. World ends in 3 years, 6 months and 2 days.

Don't worry about Dutchie. Dutchie's fine.

pacino wrote:Bringing someone's age into the equation to dismiss their opinion is pretty weak.

Children aren't special jeff.

Sorry, I was going somewhere else with that, but the point is, MOST 22 year olds feel the way crash does - I certainly did. It's an irrelevant data point.

Second, how much did I nail the society being messed up thing. Total socialist hippie sort of thing.

Third, Jerseyhoya's right. I actually think dajafi, has a "duty" to pop out a couple kids, or at least adopt them. I can't imagine having three kids, but I'm halfway convinced it's my duty as a person who contributes a ton to society to pop out more than the replacement rate. Ultimately my wife will win that decision.

Luckily there are hundreds of countries so we're still getting a 90% on our test

CrashburnAlley wrote:Another reason is that I'm nice enough to make the decision not to pollute the gene pool with my mediocre DNA.

Mediocre or not, your DNA would bring up the average, so get out there and sire!

Phight On! wrote:6 months ago the Mike's Hard Lemonade ads were all about being tough guys in a pussified politically correct America (while blatantly stereotyping gay men in a negative manor).

Now I just saw one that casually mentioned they now have a pomegranate flavored lemonade.

Welcome to Negative Manor, where your stay will be more crappy than you can imagine. The wait staff is dour and surly, we only serve porridge, tasteless fish and soggy french fries, and the mattresses are filled with packing peanuts. I hope you have the stay of your life.

jeff2sf wrote:Sorry, I was going somewhere else with that, but the point is, MOST 22 year olds feel the way crash does - I certainly did. It's an irrelevant data point.

I haven't told anyone my age here and don't plan to, but I will say that your estimate is off a bit. Close, but that only counts in horseshoes, or so I hear.

jeff2sf wrote:Second, how much did I nail the society being messed up thing. Total socialist hippie sort of thing.

As above, it's disingenuous to simply dismiss others' opinions under generalized brands like "socialist" and "hippie". You'll notice that I rarely, if ever, generalize someone like that and outright dismiss their opinions -- as pessimistic as I am -- because there's a lot more that goes behind how we arrive at our worldviews than simply picking a side. I don't spout party lines; you'll never see me join a fight with a group of atheists or a group of socialists simply because I have that label as well.

jeff2sf wrote:Third, Jerseyhoya's right. I actually think dajafi, has a "duty" to pop out a couple kids, or at least adopt them. I can't imagine having three kids, but I'm halfway convinced it's my duty as a person who contributes a ton to society to pop out more than the replacement rate. Ultimately my wife will win that decision.

How do you contribute "a ton" to society? You don't have to get into specifics if you don't want to, but I find it hard to believe, unless you're working at a high level in the government, that you make even one little ripple in the lake that is American society.

If you died tomorrow, would your absence be felt by society at large? For 99.9% of us, no. I'm curious as to how you're part of that 0.1%.

And just to chime in on the kid issue, I wouldn't want to have any until I'm damn good and ready. How I will recognize that feeling, I don't know, but I couldn't imagine half-heartedly having a kid.
I'm not really concerned about the whole "look how crappy this world is" argument, because you could have posed the same argument at various junctures in time. It would have been kind of bad if the majority of Americans thought "You know, this Civil War sucks, our country is awful, let's not have any kids."
At the same time, the rising population is a little scary, as are the general challenges that come with parenthood.

CrashburnAlley wrote:

jeff2sf wrote:Sorry, I was going somewhere else with that, but the point is, MOST 22 year olds feel the way crash does - I certainly did. It's an irrelevant data point.

I haven't told anyone my age here and don't plan to, but I will say that your estimate is off a bit. Close, but that only counts in horseshoes, or so I hear.

jeff2sf wrote:Second, how much did I nail the society being messed up thing. Total socialist hippie sort of thing.

As above, it's disingenuous to simply dismiss others' opinions under generalized brands like "socialist" and "hippie". You'll notice that I rarely, if ever, generalize someone like that and outright dismiss their opinions -- as pessimistic as I am -- because there's a lot more that goes behind how we arrive at our worldviews than simply picking a side. I don't spout party lines; you'll never see me join a fight with a group of atheists or a group of socialists simply because I have that label as well.

jeff2sf wrote:Third, Jerseyhoya's right. I actually think dajafi, has a "duty" to pop out a couple kids, or at least adopt them. I can't imagine having three kids, but I'm halfway convinced it's my duty as a person who contributes a ton to society to pop out more than the replacement rate. Ultimately my wife will win that decision.

How do you contribute "a ton" to society? You don't have to get into specifics if you don't want to, but I find it hard to believe, unless you're working at a high level in the government, that you make even one little ripple in the lake that is American society.

If you died tomorrow, would your absence be felt by society at large? For 99.9% of us, no. I'm curious as to how you're part of that 0.1%.

You just don't get it, Scott, you don't.

Instead of being pompous, you could just answer my questions, or say "I don't have any response to your question."

I'm legitimately curious as to how you think you make an impact on American society. You said it, and I'm not trying to be snarky at all -- I want to know.

On a completely unrelated point, this video makes little to no sense:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nesQa4U8Y1w[/youtube]

1. Do people really eat burgers with a knife and fork? (Reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where George eats a candy bar with utensils.)

2. Why does she have both ketchup packets and a bottle of ketchup?