livestock, lipstick, and liquidity: politics thread

by **CMD** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 19:56:36

What is McCain's actual reasoning behind requesting to cancel the debate? Is he sincere in wanting to get everyone back to Washington to handle the crisis? Does he think people will see this as anything other than a desperate media grab and avoidance as his poll numbers continue to slide? He can't hide both his VP candidate AND himself from the media at the same time and expect to win, can he?

by **TenuredVulture** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 20:04:23

CMD wrote:What is McCain's actual reasoning behind requesting to cancel the debate? Is he sincere in wanting to get everyone back to Washington to handle the crisis? Does he think people will see this as anything other than a desperate media grab and avoidance as his poll numbers continue to slide? He can't hide both his VP candidate AND himself from the media at the same time and expect to win, can he?

I think more than anything, he's trying to get out front on the economic thing. And, there may be at least some sincerity here.

But bottom line, Senate Republicans are a bigger threat to derailing a deal than Democrats. You can buy off the Democrats with a few concessions. There are Republicans who are against any deal in principle. McCain probably thinks that not getting a deal done, especially if it's because of Republican opposition, will sink whatever chance he has at the Presidency. So, in concert with Bush, he's doing this in part to put some pressure on Congressional Republicans.

by **CMD** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 20:07:12

Agreed. But what deal that could be struck Friday night couldn't be struck over the weekend? As long as they can hammer something out by Monday, I don't see what harm being away for four hours might have.

by **The Dude** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 20:14:20

what the hell was that

by **TenuredVulture** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 20:14:26

CMD wrote:Agreed. But what deal that could be struck Friday night couldn't be struck over the weekend? As long as they can hammer something out by Monday, I don't see what harm being away for four hours might have.

Oh, no, they can hammer out a deal, I don't think that's the issue. The issue is getting conservative Republicans like Shelby on board. Make no mistake, if Shelby wants to he can by himself slow things up enough that a deal doesn't get done. At all. And I think McCain believes that will end his campaign. By "suspending" his campaign, he tells conservative Republicans that if they don't get on board, they'll lose this election, and all three branches will be in Democratic hands.

I don't think they care at all about Obama right now. Obama can debate an empty chair, he can debate Palin, he can debate McCain. (Though I doubt McCain wants to give up a foreign policy debate.) All the scenarios that are trying to figure out the maneuvering are simply too byzantine for anyone to really predict, unless the McCain people are even more desperate than I think they are.

by **VoxOrion** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 20:27:38

This seems like a McCain thing to do, but I know we're all cynics and probably see it as a stunt.

I'm thinking that McCain might be able to do something in Washington. Even though he isn't well liked by Republicans in congress, he has to be able to say "Look, there's a 45-50% chance I'm going to be president, do you really want me to come into office furious at you for carrying on like this? What happens when I start vetoing your bills?"

by **TenuredVulture** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 20:29:24

VoxOrion wrote:This seems like a McCain thing to do, but I know we're all cynics and probably see it as a stunt.

I'm thinking that McCain might be able to do something in Washington. Even though he isn't well liked by Republicans in congress, he has to be able to say "Look, there's a 45-50% chance I'm going to be president, do you really want me to come into office furious at you for carrying on like this? What happens when I start vetoing your bills?"

McCain has a lot more leverage over Senate Republicans than Bush does. On the other hand, Woody probably has more leverage over Sen. Republicans than Bush.

by **VoxOrion** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 20:37:26

The thing that bugs me is if both (or all three of them) agree to go back to Washington and either contribute or at the least be certain to vote, no one loses. If done properly, no one loses or gets an "edge" by going to DC and doing their job. Maybe McCain can play "It was my idea" but that's the best edge anyone could get on this. I don't see how this can refect well on Obama with people who are on the fence with him. Just do it and it's a null game.

Any talk of McCain being worried about or trying to avoid a debate is ludicrous.

by **FTN** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 21:04:25

by **jerseyhoya** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 21:09:32

Bush just threw down the gauntlet for Obama

by **Philly the Kid** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 23:29:26

VoxOrion wrote:This seems like a McCain thing to do, but I know we're all cynics and probably see it as a stunt.

I'm thinking that McCain might be able to do something in Washington. Even though he isn't well liked by Republicans in congress, he has to be able to say "Look, there's a 45-50% chance I'm going to be president, do you really want me to come into office furious at you for carrying on like this? What happens when I start vetoing your bills?"

You're right, I see it as a stunt. Maybe there is a sintilla of sincerity in his gesture, but more likely than not, they know that a well crafted series of talking points from Obama, will CLEARLY link McCain to the policy makers who lead to this crisis, Keating 5 is a nice start and move on forwards from there. I think he fears being tied to the crisis in the debate a month before the election with no way to swim back, and it will dwarf any perceived edge he has on Obama with the "surge" and foreign policy.

by **phdave** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 23:49:26

VoxOrion wrote:Any talk of McCain being worried about or trying to avoid a debate is ludicrous.

I'm inspired by your lack of cynicism.

McCain supporter Sen. Lindsey Graham tells CNN the McCain campaign is proposing to the Presidential Debate Commission and the Obama camp that if there's no bailout deal by Friday, the first presidential debate should take the place of the VP debate, currently scheduled for next Thursday, October 2 in St. Louis.

link

by **Woody** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 23:54:12

Would they still have the VP debate

by **jerseyhoya** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 23:55:46

They can't get away from having the VP debate. I imagine this would just push them all back.

by **phdave** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 23:58:12

More cram time (snicker).

by **VoxOrion** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 00:04:28

I'm saying yapping and debating are McCain's thing. One has to pretend not to know anything about the man to think he doesn't want an opportunity to carry on.

by **phdave** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 00:05:44

Former Republican congressman Mickey Edwards is a cynic:

Oh, brother. What idiot came up with this stunt?

It ranks somewhere on the stupidity scale between plain silly and numbingly desperate. McCain and Obama are both members of the senate and they're both able to help craft a solution if they wish to do so without putting the presidential campaign on hold; after all, I’m sure congressional leaders would be willing to accept their calls if they have some important insights to impart. And while one of them will eventually become president, neither one is president yet, nor is either one a member of the congressional leadership; I’m confident that somehow the administration and the other 533 members of congress will be able to muddle through without tapping into the superior wisdom and intellect of their nominees. Sorry, john; it really sounds like you're afraid to debate. This sounds like the sort of ploy we used to use in junior high school elections.

by **phdave** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 00:36:07

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E&eurl=http://www.bloglines.com/myblogs_display?sub=36400949&site=6932798[/youtube]

by **Monkeyboy** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 01:02:14

Am I the only one hoping for a president who can multi-task?

If there's another emergency (and there usually is every few years), will McCain have to shut down all the other responsibilities of his job in order to focus on it, or will he be able to multi-task and keep the rest of the country running while attending to the emergency? I guess we'll never know.

As for the debate, the very worse thing that could happen to McCain is for Obama to outshine him in the foreign policy debate. McCain knows Obama will be prepared for the debate and will make a good showing, as he has at pretty much every stage of the campaign. While I don't think McCain is trying to avoid the debate, I do think it's an added bonus. As it stands, he's seen as the more knowledgeable and experienced in foreign policy. Why take the chance on disrupting that advantage with a debate?

by **The Red Tornado** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 07:43:32

phdave wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E&eurl=http://www.bloglines.com/myblogs_display?sub=36400949&site=6932798[/youtube]

conspiracy theorists- look at the running time

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livestock, lipstick, and liquidity: politics thread