PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

PhillieMooDo wrote:Hopefully.

Just for shits and giggles I was looking over some of Holmgren's moves: Traded 2008 1st round pick for Steve Eminger...ouch! Washington used that pick on John Carlson...double ouch!

The Upshall PLUS a 2nd for DAN CARCILLO one is the worst.

But he also traded Alexei Zhitnik for Coburn.

You win some, you lose some, obviously. His big problems seem to be 1) bidding against himself and giving extra dollars/years when he doesn't need to, and 2) tossing draft picks with little regard for their value

Put John Carlson and JVR on this team...we look a hell of a lot better.

The Savior wrote:not winning the lottery for kane...that's the one that hurts

Breaks my damn heart. He scored that sweet goal last night...I was pissed all over again.

Homer also had:

GOOD
Forsberg for Timonen, Hartnell, Upshall, Ryan Parent and a 3rd-rd pick that was used to trade up for Kevin Marshall
Mason for Leighton and a 2015 3rd
Carter for #8 overall (Coots), Scoracek and Nick Cousins

BAD
2011 1st + 3rd for Kris Versteeg (then he traded Versteeg for 2 draft picks, one of which turned out to be GHOST, so...)

I also think we're feeling different if the Shea Weber offer had worked.

Is the PK talk a legit possibility or wishful thinking?

Doubt there's anyway montreal doesn't match.

z ipper wrote:

SK790 wrote:i'm all for getting a less dumb GM, but the fans haven't "suffered" through anything. they haven't won a cup in forever, but the team has been consistently competitive. since the terrible teams in the early 90s, we've missed the playoffs twice and were a consistent contender for almost a decade before the lockout.

it really is insane. this was holmgren's sixth 82-game season as gm. this season was the second time they failed to reach the final 8.
tho this guy killed him for signing berube for two years so who knows what's wrong with him.

There was really no reason to sign Berube to a 2 year deal at the time. Berube worked out, but it is the problem with the organization and it's mentality that they don't need to look outside the organization for help. He had a great season, sign him to a deal at the end of it. Tons of teams have an interim coach that gets signed in season or at the end. It's like signing Rosehill for 2 years, or giving Shelley an extra year, totally unnecessary. It may seem like a small detail, but if you continue to do things like that it adds up.

Funniest quote from Snider yesterday was after he said he liked Hextall because he brings an outside view from another team to the Flyers. The reporter followed up and asked if they needed more of that, and he said No right away.

I guess if you look at Homer's/Flyers body of work under his tenure, it isn't as bad as just looking at the past 4 years. 1 win in the 2nd round of the playoffs since the Cup run 4 years ago.

Maybe Homer is in a no win situation, nobody knows how much Snider makes him do. The Bryz deal was terrible, but most people give him a pass because Snider said to do it. But as GM, you have to have some backbone at some point and tell Snider to let you do your job.

PhillieMooDo wrote:I also think we're feeling different if the Shea Weber offer had worked.

Is the PK talk a legit possibility or wishful thinking?

It would be different because we wouldn't have had the money to sign Vinny or give MacDonald that monster deal. That would have been great.

BigEd76 wrote:Homer also had:

GOOD
Forsberg for Timonen, Hartnell, Upshall, Ryan Parent and a 3rd-rd pick that was used to trade up for Kevin Marshall
Mason for Leighton and a 2015 3rd
Carter for #8 overall (Coots), Scoracek and Nick Cousins

BAD
2011 1st + 3rd for Kris Versteeg (then he traded Versteeg for 2 draft picks, one of which turned out to be GHOST, so...)

i'd say the richards trade would be about neutral, but i'm guessing most people here would consider it "good".

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:Ultimately, I believe Holmgrens tenure is defined by the Pronger trade. We gave up Sbisa (a guy that will probably play 15-20 years in the NHL), Lupul, plus two more first round picks. Pronger essentially played around 2 seasons (and only 1 healthy playoff run) for the Flyers before his freakish injury. The Flyers pedigree of drafting in the first round leads me to believe that we would have gotten productive players out of the 09/10 picks. The Flyers deprived themselves of 3 consecutive first round picks to try and win the cup and they got really close, but I don't think we need to trade for Luke Schenn if Pronger is still playing. He's everything the Flyers are lacking in one player.

If Pronger was still healthy this would be a different team. Ruben Amaro also gets criticized for being incompetent but if Halladay was still Halladay the Phillies would look a bit different too. I would rather have a GM who goes for it than one who is ok with secure mediocrity. Its just easier to complain after the fact.

that's ignoring the fact that both players were old as fuck. i like how pronger's career was ended by a "freak injury". maybe it's the fact that he was 37 and people in their late 30s probably aren't equipped to come back from serious injuries?

It was still a freak injury. Doesn't make much difference the age on severe concussions.

SK790 wrote:

BigEd76 wrote:Homer also had:

GOOD
Forsberg for Timonen, Hartnell, Upshall, Ryan Parent and a 3rd-rd pick that was used to trade up for Kevin Marshall
Mason for Leighton and a 2015 3rd
Carter for #8 overall (Coots), Scoracek and Nick Cousins

BAD
2011 1st + 3rd for Kris Versteeg (then he traded Versteeg for 2 draft picks, one of which turned out to be GHOST, so...)

i'd say the richards trade would be about neutral, but i'm guessing most people here would consider it "good".

I would put the Richards trade as a win for the flyers. Richards is the 4th line center for LA and had 41 points (11 g, 30a) and was a -6 on the season this year and is signed forever. Simmons alone was more productive this year for the flyers and then you have Schenn too, who is an rfa who might get dealt for additional assets.

he plays a different role on LA, though. he can still score, he's not asked to since he's a pretty good defensive center, though.

SK790 wrote:that's ignoring the fact that both players were old as fuck. i like how pronger's career was ended by a "freak injury". maybe it's the fact that he was 37 and people in their late 30s probably aren't equipped to come back from serious injuries?

It's still a freak injury to a player that was going to continue to be elite for a few more seasons (would have been aided by the lockout as well)

you can't possibly know he was going to still be elite.

he could have been susceptible to injury more as he aged anyway. doesn't matter because the window closed after the bang bros dump off, in which he had a say in the move. I still don't think the flyers could have overcome the goaltending in the years since the cup even with pronger. and if youre talking about now with mason 4 years later, he would be 39. tough to say how much of the decline had set in

PhillieMooDo wrote:I also think we're feeling different if the Shea Weber offer had worked.

Is the PK talk a legit possibility or wishful thinking?

The weber thing pusses me off because it's proof they know the rules of the new CBA and salary cap yet they still do these ridiculous long term overmarket deals for average talents every year

The Savior wrote:

PhillieMooDo wrote:I also think we're feeling different if the Shea Weber offer had worked.

Is the PK talk a legit possibility or wishful thinking?

The weber thing pusses me off because it's proof they know the rules of the new CBA and salary cap yet they still do these ridiculous long term overmarket deals for average talents every year

Who's signed over-market? I think the issue with the Flyers is that they've signed guys to free market prices on extensions to prevent bidding wars. They've gotten into bidding wars on guys in the last couple years (Parise and Suter are the glaring examples) and they've lost, and they've been very wary of getting into the same situation again. McDonald is an example of that. It's not overly egregious to me because I'm pretty sure he'd get that if he hit free agency, but it comes to a point where if you're paying him market value, why lock him up now and restrict your flexibility?

SK790 wrote:he plays a different role on LA, though. he can still score, he's not asked to since he's a pretty good defensive center, though.

Wouldn't be surprised if they buy him out.

ReadingPhilly wrote:

SK790 wrote:he plays a different role on LA, though. he can still score, he's not asked to since he's a pretty good defensive center, though.

Wouldn't be surprised if they buy him out.

Get um!