cartersDad26 wrote:I've never accepted that logic. You can deal now and offer the other team an extra 6 weeks of the players services, that has value. I said all this last year too and probably got the same response.

You can make trades before the deadline if you are willing to take lesser prospects in return. Teams need to be desperate before they give up top talent. The deadline makes them desperate enough. Also some teams are not confident they will still be in the race in a couple of months. Some teams that are leading divisions might not think they need to sacrifice their future if they are doing well enough to get into the playoffs without it.

We are getting closer to the time to make trades. The Phillies didn't trade Bedrosian until June 18th and they were 12.5 games out. But they are rare before the All Star Break.

Wasn't it Shapiro who traded Colon for a bunch of guys, including you know who, and was hailed for his genius of striking early? If there's a really strong offer, I'd take it.

But I agree it's true that most teams won't put their best players out there this early even if it gives them a significant advantage over the next 6 weeks.

Bucky wrote:speaking of which, rube hasn't decided either.

Let me help...this is a 75 win team with a $180m payroll that is going to be worse in 2014.

Monkeyboy wrote:Wasn't it Shapiro who traded Colon for a bunch of guys, including you know who, and was hailed for his genius of striking early? If there's a really strong offer, I'd take it.

But I agree it's true that most teams won't put their best players out there this early even if it gives them a significant advantage over the next 6 weeks.

He was traded June 27th. That's what is considered early. And the result of that trade is a pretty good reason why teams are wary of giving up top talent too soon. The Expos were 6.5 games behind in their division and 5 back of the wild card at the time of the trade. They were 16 games out of the division lead and 7 games back of the wild card at the deadline. They ended up 19 and 12.5 games out. They traded Colon after the season but didn't get anything close to what they gave up.

If someone offers the equivalent of Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Lee Stevens in June for someone then I hope they listen but I doubt it will happen.

The Colon trade is an all-time aberration. The team was being run by MLB, and IIRC at the time of the trade there was a non-zero chance it would be contracted after 2002. Omar Minaya was the acting GM, and he figured his best chance to keep the Expos alive and in Montreal (and to make his reputation as a real-boy GM) was to reenact the basic plot from "Major League" with a miracle run into the postseason. No team with actual human owners would have okayed that deal.

I was just pointing out that we should do a trade if a really good offer comes up, rather than foregoing the good deal in hopes that something better will come along. I agreed that it was unlikely.

Monkeyboy wrote:I was just pointing out that we should do a trade if a really good offer comes up

brilliant

we can't be sure that rube would do it

dajafi wrote:The Colon trade is an all-time aberration. The team was being run by MLB, and IIRC at the time of the trade there was a non-zero chance it would be contracted after 2002. Omar Minaya was the acting GM

Omar Minaya could be the worst pro sports exec of all time

bill bavasi

there is a section of his wikipedia page called "Terrible trades, signings, and draft choices "

Talk about a great "what if" scenario. If the Expos/Nats had held onto the likes of Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, and Grady Sizemore, would they have been good enough in the late 2000s to not get the #1 overall picks that netted them Strasburg and Harper?

The Dude wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:I was just pointing out that we should do a trade if a really good offer comes up

brilliant

The meaning of the quote changes completely if you cut off half my post, Dude. My original comment was mostly directed at the idea that you don't do early trades.

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Talk about a great "what if" scenario. If the Expos/Nats had held onto the likes of Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, and Grady Sizemore, would they have been good enough in the late 2000s to not get the #1 overall picks that netted them Strasburg and Harper?

Imagine if Washington didn't have the #1 in 08 and Seattle had it instead. They could have a rotation of Strasburg, Felix, Iwakuma, Fister (if they didn't do that stupid trade) and Brandon Morrow (no need to revisit the Morrow over Lincecum decision - and err...Kershaw).

Then you still have guys like Walker, Hultzen (who they may not have drafted), Paxton (who is struggling) and I guess Maurer.

They still couldn't hit at all though.

They could be the Phillies Northwest.

Would have happened if they were the #5 org.

Some Baseball Prospectus guy reports the Papelbon for Castelanos deal could be a thing. In fact, Castelanos plus. Who else could we get from the Tigers. Maybe a reliefer. That guy who throws 100 MPH.

that would be unbelievable. so its probably not true.

Tigers are pretty desperate for a closer.

and they dont really have a place for him.

so yeah. lets do this.

Feel like we'd have to send more in that case. Could they use a middle infielder (now or in the short-term future)?