Dom Brown: Phillies Random Thoughts

by **Wheels Tupay** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:39:34

Yeah, I wouldnt worry too much about his comments. He is just telling the league they aren't coming cheaply.

by **pacino** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:12:06

this guy's got all the tools.

by **LongDrive** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 13:19:50

Wheels Tupay wrote:Yeah, I wouldnt worry too much about his comments. He is just telling the league they aren't coming cheaply.

Yep

by **Woody** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 13:26:34

LongDrive wrote:
Wheels Tupay wrote:Yeah, I wouldnt worry too much about his comments. He is just telling the league they aren't coming cheaply.

Yep

I want to believe this

by **phdave** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 13:40:21

Is there someone who wants him to get on record saying, "Yeah, we're trading Papelbon first decent offer we get."

by **smitty** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 13:45:13

He should say "Brian Kenney says anyone can close" and trade him for Kelly Schoppach or Brayan Pena.

by **MoBettle** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:04:13

At the same time he almost definitely believes what he said otherwise he wouldn't have set the closer contract record signing Pap in the first place.

by **smitty** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:10:06

I think it's been the Phils' philosophy. Flash Gordon. Wagner. Lidge. Even Madson. Using Myers. They believe in elite closers. After guys like Jose Mesa and Heathcliff Slocum I'm not sure they are all that wrong.

Omg. Guess how we got Heathcliff.

by **Grotewold** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:12:45

Why would the best closer on the market in recent years (relatively young for FA) not have broken the record

We'll see what the Yankees do post-Mo, but it seems like most max-payroll teams get the best guy possible. Boston got creative with it to pretty dismal results thus far

by **phdave** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:15:16

smitty wrote:I think it's been the Phils' philosophy. Flash Gordon. Wagner. Lidge. Even Madson. Using Myers. They believe in elite closers. After guys like Jose Mesa and Heathcliff Slocum I'm not sure they are all that wrong.

Omg. Guess how we got Heathcliff.

Haha did not remember that. Connect the dots.

by **Grotewold** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:15:21

Gatt Melb wrote:Since April 18, Phillies (27-25) have best record in NL East. Braves are 26-26 and Nats are 24-27

by **Barry Jive** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:16:58

Most of them are homegrown, aren't they? It just generally doesn't pay to overspend on your bullpen because for successful teams you're usually filling those spots internally. Getting a guy like Papelbon could be an exception because he's elite, but generally if you're paying big bucks for a relief pitcher it's done as an indictment of your relief pitching development, I think

by **MoBettle** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:18:09

Grotewold wrote:Why would the best closer on the market in recent years (relatively young for FA) not have broken the record

We'll see what the Yankees do post-Mo, but it seems like most max-payroll teams get the best guy possible. Boston got creative with it to pretty dismal results thus far

Absolutely, still him signing Pap is an indication that he believes what he said. It's not like he said "you need to get power hitting from your center fielder to win" when we have Revere.

by **phdave** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:18:21

Grotewold wrote:Why would the best closer on the market in recent years (relatively young for FA) not have broken the record

We'll see what the Yankees do post-Mo, but it seems like most max-payroll teams get the best guy possible. Boston got creative with it to pretty dismal results thus far

The Phillies could afford to pay a lot for a closer in 2012 because they followed the formula for constructing a good bullpen cheaply by using a cast of rookies and vets through dumpster diving.

by **Grotewold** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:18:45

Barry Jive wrote:Most of them are homegrown, aren't they?

Yeah, but it's not like the max-payroll teams let the guys walk when they get expensive, usually

by **Barry Jive** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:20:34

Madson? Papelbon? maybe they're just exceptions.

by **Grotewold** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:21:26

MoBettle wrote:Absolutely, still him signing Pap is an indication that he believes what he said. It's not like he said "you need to get power hitting from your center fielder to win" when we have Revere.

Agreed. That's definitely a priority of this team over the years.

But I think he's bluffing on Papelbon. As high on him as I am, you can replace him on the open market most years, if you don't have an internal guy or someone coming back in the trade. Add a promising bat in and it's a no brainer

Lee on the other hand is impossible to replace, skill and contract (length) wise. Trading him is essentially waving the white flag through 2016, unless you get a couple bats that develop real quickly and you turn around and sign a stud free agent SP. I view that as improbable and, thus, a last resort

by **Grotewold** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:22:32

Barry Jive wrote:Madson? Papelbon? maybe they're just exceptions.

Papelbon definitely, but I doubt the Red Sox feel great about that one

Madson the Phils were close to giving $40M to

by **Barry Jive** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:31:36

you're kind of disregarding the idea that there are organizations in baseball who don't value closers nearly as much as the Phillies do

by **Grotewold** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:37:05

Barry Jive wrote:you're kind of disregarding the idea that there are organizations in baseball who don't value closers nearly as much as the Phillies do

I think the max- and even high-payroll teams play by different rules. It's usually in their best interest to get as good a closer as possible. Obviously if you can develop one internally, that's ideal.

The Phillies are certainly at or toward the top in terms of valuing the position, though. Could have gone with a bat instead of Papelbon, though what a circus that would have been

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