by 2015 hopefully we'll have a revolutionary lineup made entirely of slap hitters except for dom brown and his regular 70 home run seasons.

I don't care if they are slappy. Just don't want them to be crappy.

I'm not so much annoyed that they only used scouts to evaluate D Young but that they evidently used scouting reports from 7 fucking years ago.

Will Cesar stick at the ML level? I've been impressed with him thus far. It would be nice to work with Cesar, Freddy, and Dom going forward as part of our young core.

philliesphhan wrote:I'm not so much annoyed that they only used scouts to evaluate D Young but that they evidently used scouting reports from 7 fucking years ago.

Babe Ruth coach put a word in

whatd ty cobb say about his baserunning

pacino wrote:whatd ty cobb say about his baserunning

make sure when you slide put your spikes into the Irish guys

There's a lot of ways to win in MLB.

I beieve, as I always have -- that if the Phils have solid starting pitching and a lights out bull-pen, they can win with mediocre lineups if those lineups have guys who are smart at the plate. Plate discipline. Make pitchers work. And play defense.

I don't know if Ashe and the catcher are future starters? If Biddle and any of the others are either. But imagine this scenario....

Cliff Lee, Doc Halladay and Cole Hamels are all back next year and healthy and Hamels shakes of this bizarre year, corrects anything that may be amiss, Doc is much stronger after surgery and refinds most of what he had plus gets smarter, and Cliff stays where he is...why can't a new manager with some pesky youngsters, and a wiley veteran or too work us in to playoffs?

It's like all the talk I hear, is that we're going to suck for 5 years. Nothing in the minors, and everyone got old. But if you have pitching, you can reconfigure quickly. There are always new hungry kids coming up and some turn out to be ok if not stars. We don't need Abreu, Burrel, Utley, Howard, Thome, Rolen and Rollins "mashing" to win. We need consistent pitching, a lock-down-pen ...

To me, one of the biggest mistakes of Amaro was not learning from 2010 when the Giants smoked us with that bullpen and a pesky lineup.

Tim Lincecum will be cut loose after this season, there will be guys out there to fill in if Kendrick, Pettibone or Cloyd can't cut it. And if Papelbon is healthy and throwing heat, why dump him too? If Adams can't turn it around, then focus on the 2-3-4 guys coming out of the pen. Hamels and Doc and Lee, healthy, even aging - should be able to get you 6 innings. If the pen is solid, you can win like that.

I don't know if Dom Brown is a fluke or not? He's not 22, he's 26 and I don't know if he's a bone-fide masher. Ryan Howard is a mess. Guys has just fallen off the face of it all. He's declined almost every year of his career, has not made adjustments and well...

Utley and Howard are probably more suited for DH, and maybe some team (KC?) would take Howard if the Phils paid say half his salary. Half or 2/3 of Howard - and no more Utley, frees up some money without having to dump Lee or Hamels. Doc won't ask for 20mm either. We could lower some costs and keep all 3. I again assert - ONLY IF HEALTHY and made some adjustments.

Point is -- I'm not as doom and gloom about the future, with the right people in charge. The problem may be that the wrong people are in charge.

We need a new skipper. A new culture. I'm done with Jim Rollins. He had a great storied career in Phila., and will always be beloved but he's just not worth it. Let him finish up in SF or Oakland -- and much as I'll miss him, unless Utley plays for cheap and with incentives for games played and stats...why bother. If you can move Howard, even under-writing most of his salary, I guess Utley could play first? Fan favorite...

Anyway -- I'm not completely given up on this season. I really thought Hamels would straighten it out and be 3-7 by now and work his way back to .500 but he's got the mental problem now. Might as well send him for a vacation for 3 weeks and do some meditation and then come back re-start.

I'm all for letting some of our young guys get some playing time, but would rather see the mentored by Ryne or some other younger skipper, ole Cholly is played out.

Something is wrong.

2008 win WS
2009 win more games lose WS (Hamels chokes)
2010 win more games lose final round
2011 set franchise record for wins, lose in first round
2012 ugh
2013 ???

Something isn't adding up? It's clear the Howard Utley Rollins core is over as it once was. Delmon Young? Ben Revere? really?

I repeat -- pitching will keep you in the race. Focus there. Get younger in the position players with D, energy, smarts and plate discipline!!!

half of all pitchers put on the DL at Halladay's age never pitch again. His didnt clinch 2014 by innings. he wont be back, IMO.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:greatest, unwatchable, etc.

just catching up on this thread now, but this might be my favorite thing ever posted on these boards.

PTK,

The reason that there are so many doom and gloomers is because of who is captaining the ship. With a competent GM, we could be fine next year, but expecting competence from Lord Smug is like expecting apologies from Madoff.

I doubt Halladay is back here next year. He wants to win, and this team isn't going to give him that chance next year. He'll probably take a one year deal with a clear cut winner and hope to rebound. The other problem is roster construction, which is something the Giants are incredibly good at doing. Many members of this pitching staff have high flyball tendencies, but the defense is generally atrocious.

Right now, it probably takes 75% of Howard's contract to move him, which I still would do in a heartbeat. With Ruf, you're going to get the same production as present Howard, yet at a fraction of the cost. Invest the savings elsewhere to bolster the club.

I'm not going to make a "fix the Phillies" response, as I don't have the time, but moves obviously need to be made.

mstairs12
Just to let everyone know. That ball has not landed yet. Will let you know when it does.

I am so tired of hearing that a player is trying to do too much.

I really miss watching baseball games that matter.

Cafardo:

A team doesn’t want to make a trade just to make a trade. It must have impact, and there aren’t many players who can give you that impact who are also available.

Who would be the No. 1 guy available?

After asking the question to a couple dozen executives, scouts, and players over the past few days, the consensus was Phillies lefthander Cliff Lee.

Lee, who would have to waive a limited no-trade clause, would improve a number of teams. The Red Sox, Orioles, Indians, Angels, and Rangers are some that would really benefit from a Lee deal, but there could be many more, including the Dodgers (because they can) or the Yankees, who say they can’t but have the means to do it.

One American League executive indicated there would be 20 teams lined up for Lee. Trading Lee would mean the Phillies are truly blowing it up and starting anew.
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Lee is probably the last guy general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. wants to trade, but he would bring the greatest return.

The Orioles have been searching for this type of starter for two years. They didn’t have it last season. They don’t have it this season. The Orioles would have to give up some of their young pitching, whether it be Kevin Gausman or Dylan Bundy, to make it happen.

Would they do that? And more importantly, would they take on Lee’s $25 million each of the next two years and a $27.5 million vesting option for 2016? It doesn’t appear the Phillies would have to eat any of Lee’s salary.

The Red Sox also have the chips to tempt the Phillies. They would have to be willing to give up one of their best pitching prospects, whether that’s Henry Owens, Anthony Ranaudo, Matt Barnes, or Rubby De La Rosa. It might require two of those guys.

The Indians need a starter and a closer to keep contending in the AL Central, but do they have enough to reacquire Lee? They would likely have to part with Zach McAllister or Corey Kluber in any deal. And again, there would be Lee’s salary coming the other way.

The Angels have Jered Weaver back from the disabled list, and that’s huge. If they’re to make a run, however, they also have to look at the front and back of their pitching staff.

The Phillies have a second interesting piece, Jonathan Papelbon. If the Phillies decide they are retooling, they probably don’t need a top closer.

One tremendous fit for Papelbon, according to several of the baseball people we talked to, would be Detroit. Imagine if the Tigers could add a lights-out closer to that starting rotation. He would also be an option for the Angels and Red Sox, but the Sox will give Andrew Bailey every chance to do the job. The Indians would also be an option with Papelbon. With Chris Perez out with shoulder tendinitis, Papelbon would solidify that spot for good, and be reunited with former manager Terry Francona.
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Immediately after Ellsbury stole five bases Thursday night against the Phillies, it started to dawn on people — including some in the Philadelphia organization — wouldn’t Ellsbury be a nice piece in the Phillies’ lineup next season? Ben Revere hasn’t been what the Phillies had hoped since they acquired him in the Vance Worley deal. Ellsbury would be devastating in that ballpark and add a spark the lineup desperately needs. However, then he hurt his groin, and the injury question popped up.

Yeah Ellsbury would no longer be suppressed by the monster and Pesky's pole

Do not want.

I'd sign him in the offseason definitely, but who knows what the market for him is going to be like.

Boras guy, injury history, probably would cost a pick. If not, then maybe depending on the market. Hopefully Amaro would play it like Rollins rather than Papelbon.

If we flipped him [Ellsbury] immediately I would take him