PhillieMooDo wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

Grotewold wrote:

laf837 wrote:A 21 win drop for 11 to 12 was not a catastrophic fall? We look like a below .500 team right now. 30 win drop in 2 years possibly? Our offensive numbers are the likes we havent seen in a decade.

Getting very little from your two best hitters and best pitcher in 2012 was kind of hard to overcome, on top of all the other injuries and Lee's insanely bad luck

We'll see about this year. Offense definitely looks weak

You could attribute last year to "injuries and bad luck". But that explanation becomes less plausible as this season progresses. Further, I don't think even the Phillies believe it. At least they didn't do anything in the offseason to suggest they believe it. If things don't get better, look to see Kendrick traded.

I don't get trading Kendrick...if we need to rebuild wouldn't he still be a relatively cheap, somewhat effective piece we'd want to keep around?

If you want decent return, you have to trade players with value. That is, no one is going to take Howard or Halladay off our hands. Utley puts fannies in seats, and trading him would be very unpopular with the fan base. I think a similar case can be made with Hamels (though obviously not as popular as Utley, trading him would still send a negative signal that would probably hurt revenue. Though I suppose for the right deal, you could put up with losing Hamels).

But as I said in another thread, no one is going to stop coming to games because Kendrick isn't there. And the smart people around here anyway believe that he's not nearly as good as he appears.

TenuredVulture wrote:But as I said in another thread, no one is going to stop coming to games because Kendrick isn't there. And the smart people around here anyway believe that he's not nearly as good as he appears.

Halladay is a FA after this year. Many teams would take a chance on his ability to bounce back if the cost was a fringe prospect. I'm also not sold on Howard's role as an immovable anchor; if the Phillies handcuff Howard to Lee like the Red Sox did with Crawford, I'm actually pretty confident in the possibility of getting a deal done. Right now, I see two possible options, both of which are with all-in clubs.

Toronto - Lee + Howard for Buehrle and mid-level prospect. Rather than including money with Howard and Lee, the Phillies can just take on another bad contract.

LA Angels - Lee + Howard + money for Blanton + Trumbo

usctrojans31 wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:But as I said in another thread, no one is going to stop coming to games because Kendrick isn't there. And the smart people around here anyway believe that he's not nearly as good as he appears.

Halladay is a FA after this year. Many teams would take a chance on his ability to bounce back if the cost was a fringe prospect. I'm also not sold on Howard's role as an immovable anchor; if the Phillies handcuff Howard to Lee like the Red Sox did with Crawford, I'm actually pretty confident in the possibility of getting a deal done. Right now, I see two possible options, both of which are with all-in clubs.

Toronto - Lee + Howard for Buehrle and mid-level prospect. Rather than including money with Howard and Lee, the Phillies can just take on another bad contract.

LA Angels - Lee + Howard + money for Blanton + Trumbo

Even if you throw Buehrle there's no way Toronto accepts that deal. The money would have to be = for anything like that to work. Buehrle comes off the books in 2015 while Howard will have to be paid till 2017 which is the other issue with that proposed trade

I'd rather just keep Howard and trade Lee, Kendrick or whoever and get better prospects. If you can field a team with a couple of (good) starting position players in pre/early arbitration years his $25mil/ season isn't a huge deal. When you are maxed out on payroll at the luxury tax he makes it makes it hard to add elite FA hitters, but if you are bringing them up from the minors it would be doable. Now that said, if you can give him away and pay half the salary, I'm all for that, but I wouldn't diminish a trade asset just to get him off the books. At the end of the day the issue isn't money, even if the payroll goes down, we are still going to be a top 10 payroll team, the issue is talent, we need to whatever we can to acquire talent.

usctrojans31 wrote:Truly random Phillies thought. No one surmise racism from the forthcoming post, rather it is just observational. Are the Phillies the blackest team in baseball? According to Forbes, baseball is 8.5% black. By my quick count, the Phillies are 24% black.

Ryan Howard
Jimmy Rollins
Dom Brown
Ben Revere
Delmon Young
John Mayberry Jr

With people bemoaning the falling black player numbers and the increasing Latin player numbers, why is no one championing the Phillies?

And Mike Young is a white Mexican! We're doing it!!

And Adams part Dothraki

carrera claimed back by the indians

ReadingPhilly wrote:carrera claimed back by the indians

don't know what you got til its gone

We forgot him in the hotel last night and just told him to forget it.

There is an article posted in the Giancarlo Stanton thread that speculates Rollins will be on the block if the Phils decide to sell. I understand that from a baseball perspective, but I renew my objection. Rollins is having a rough start anyway, so I doubt how much he'd bring back in a trade, but by the end of this contract Rollins will be breaking several team records. Feel like he should be given that shot, given how important he's been to the team for so long.

I realize this has no bearing on what the Phillies ought to do, or will do. But if I can't air my feelings here, where can I air them?

I don't want Rollins or Utley to ever play for another team.

I would guess from a dollars and cents perspective, Rollins and Utley are more valuable to the Phillies than they are to any other franchise, unless they are the difference between winning a pennant and not making the playoffs.

ReadingPhilly wrote:carrera claimed back by the indians

It was all part of their plan 4 weeks ago to spy on the Phils and dominate that 2-game series by learning everything about them. Man that Francona is good

WheelsFellOff wrote:I don't want Rollins or Utley to ever play for another team.

Yeah I'd be very upset if Utley is ever not a Phillies. I also don't disagree with the Rollins part of this statement but I was ready to accept it by the time he re-signed last year.

Rollins was awesome last year and traditionally he's a slow starter. his deal is great. trading him now would be dumb

That reminds me, Trollney has been singlehandedly trying to start the Utley trade rumors on his podcast. Discussed it twice in the past week.

Nevermind that Utley is the one player whose trade would cause a riot in Philly, regardless of the return for him.

Quintero clears waivers, joins LHV

I can breathe again.

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:That reminds me, Trollney has been singlehandedly trying to start the Utley trade rumors on his podcast. Discussed it twice in the past week.

Nevermind that Utley is the one player whose trade would cause a riot in Philly, regardless of the return for him.

Ridiculous, IMO. Chase is awesome and an all-time Phillie, but with the team staring down the gun barrel at a series of losing seasons with limited impact talent in the minors, Chase should be traded if a good return can be received.

If Joe Montana can finish with the Chiefs, Namath with the Rams, Jerry Rice with the Raiders, Farve with the Jets/Vikes, Ed Reed with the Texans, Lefty with the Indians (and on, and on...) - Chase can be traded if it helps the lean times to be shorter.

trade nycphils