Call me a Cockeyed Optimist:Phillies Random Thoughts

by **Eem** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:17:20

Who's to say he isn't thinking like that? They've been linked to Dexter Fowler and Peter Bourjos per Salisbury. They tried to trade for a set-up man which didn't work out.

Maybe they have determined that they can't pay the cost in prospects and would rather pay money for a surer thing at CF.

by **Doll Is Mine** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:20:05

When did Angel Pagan become a surer thing?

by **Trent Steele** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:20:25

Maybe he is. I don't know. I'd much rather have Bourjos and overpay Hamilton than any combination of two other FA OFs out there.

Again though, this is what makes me saddish. We have spent a ton of money, we don't have any prospects to trade, and our team has a ton of holes that can only be filled by spending money but the people available to spend it on arent all that great. Generally, that means your GM has done a pretty shitty job of late, doesn't it?

by **uncle milt** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:25:24

HOLY BUTT ED WADE NOVEL

by **Grotewold** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:27:01

Trent Steele wrote:Generally, that means your GM has done a pretty shitty job of late, doesn't it?

Generally yeah, but I think you have to look at it more closely. The Halladay and Utley injuries certainly weren't his fault, and it's not like the Giants came into the last three seasons as heavier favorites than us. Or will this year, if we add two or three solid/good players

by **Bill McNeal** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:37:42

Trent Steele wrote: I'd much rather have Bourjos and overpay Hamilton than any combination of two other FA OFs out there.

Isn't the big problem with that, that Hamilton wants to play cf? I don't know a ton about Bourjos, but isn't he primarily a defensive cf who would lose most of his value going to a corner spot? So yeah that would be ideal to pull something like that off, it just not realistic.

I don't love Pagan, but if he can be had for a reasonable number of years, I think it's alright. I wonder if he'd take a higher aav and shorter term deal, keep the deck clear for Quinn the mighty Eskimo.

by **stevemc** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:43:04

Shane wants 3 yr @ $30MM. We're probably best off just going to that well (or hoping he'll do 2 years if we wait him out).

by **Grotewold** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:44:22

stevemc wrote:Shane wants 3 yr @ $30MM

I'll be really surprised if he gets that. That's what he reportedly wanted from us last year, before having a pretty bad season

by **Trent Steele** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:44:31

Bill McNeal wrote:
Trent Steele wrote: I'd much rather have Bourjos and overpay Hamilton than any combination of two other FA OFs out there.

Isn't the big problem with that, that Hamilton wants to play cf? I don't know a ton about Bourjos, but isn't he primarily a defensive cf who would lose most of his value going to a corner spot? So yeah that would be ideal to pull something like that off, it just not realistic.

I don't love Pagan, but if he can be had for a reasonable number of years, I think it's alright. I wonder if he'd take a higher aav and shorter term deal, keep the deck clear for Quinn the mighty Eskimo.

OK, then lets just sign Hamilton to play CF.

I realize that's not likely and he probably ends up back in Texas. If they sign Pagan, Youk, and corner OF with pop, then I'm cool with it.

If it's Pagan, Michael Young, and no other real OF...then Amaro has failed terribly.

by **Trent Steele** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:48:38

Grotewold wrote:Not feeling Ichiro and would only even consider Young at like $3M/yr if there was scouting/medical reason to expect rebound

Where would he play? When he played 3B regularly - 5 years ago - he was the worst 3B in MLB. He's a DH. And a bad one.

If you're trading for him to be a superutility guy, OK. That seems like a waste of money to me, but we both know they wouldn't trade for him for that purpose. He also won't waive his NTC for that purpose.

by **Trent Steele** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:49:49

Edit: I was looking at his SS numbers. He play 3B in 2009 and 2010. He was just terrible, not the worst in MLB

by **Grotewold** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:49:53

Trent Steele wrote:
Grotewold wrote:Not feeling Ichiro and would only even consider Young at like $3M/yr if there was scouting/medical reason to expect rebound

Where would he play? When he played 3B regularly - 5 years ago - he was the worst 3B in MLB. He's a DH. And a bad one.

If you're trading for him to be a superutility guy, OK. That seems like a waste of money to me, but we both know they wouldn't trade for him for that purpose. He also won't waive his NTC for that purpose.

Yeah screw it

by **Bill McNeal** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:53:22

Trent Steele wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:
Trent Steele wrote: I'd much rather have Bourjos and overpay Hamilton than any combination of two other FA OFs out there.

Isn't the big problem with that, that Hamilton wants to play cf? I don't know a ton about Bourjos, but isn't he primarily a defensive cf who would lose most of his value going to a corner spot? So yeah that would be ideal to pull something like that off, it just not realistic.

I don't love Pagan, but if he can be had for a reasonable number of years, I think it's alright. I wonder if he'd take a higher aav and shorter term deal, keep the deck clear for Quinn the mighty Eskimo.

OK, then lets just sign Hamilton to play CF.

I realize that's not likely and he probably ends up back in Texas. If they sign Pagan, Youk, and corner OF with pop, then I'm cool with it.

If it's Pagan, Michael Young, and no other real OF...then Amaro has failed terribly.

I agree with all that.

by **LongDrive** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:55:03

Zo coming up on WIP live from Nashville.

I thought he was away on a 5 month vacation.

by **Bill McNeal** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 15:56:32

He is, he's going on to give his review of Dollywood.

by **Grotewold** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 16:20:01

LongDrive wrote:Zo coming up on WIP live from Nashville.

One big bowl of nothing, huh?

I'm not even convinced he boarded the plane

by **LongDrive** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 16:26:48

Grotewold wrote:
LongDrive wrote:Zo coming up on WIP live from Nashville.

One big bowl of nothing, huh?

I'm not even convinced he boarded the plane

Agreed! I tuned out after a couple mins. He was more concerned with catching up with Ruf for an interview.

They could have asked me the same questions and I would have had better answers.

by **Grotewold** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 16:29:09

CANDY VAN wrote:Phillies still consider price too high on Pagan, Bourn. At this point, Pagan more realistic than Bourn.

by **Eem** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 16:31:08

Everyone here can start jerking off now

Phillies still consider price too high on Pagan, Bourn. At this point, Pagan more realistic than Bourn.

by **Doll Is Mine** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 16:32:49

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Alfonso Soriano in left. It would certainly make a potential Angel Pagan signing more bearable.

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