cartersDad26 wrote:

Grotewold wrote:RealKen has us and SFG vying for Pagan and Ross

seriously? this is what we've become? FFS, maybe i need to take a year off from sports in general.

Couldn't tell from the tweet if Ross was a back-up plan

Also couldn't confirm that Amaro is eliminating FanDuel

Im pretty much convinced we'll get pagan. I need to reconcile myself to that fact

Man, I think Pagan is clearly the best CF option on the market and I really don't know what I'm missing here with all the whining

All of the options are mediocre to terrible for varying reasons. I'm just glad they're keeping the draft pick (for now, if this plays out).

Eem wrote:Man, I think Pagan is clearly the best CF option on the market and I really don't know what I'm missing here with all the whining

Should of just developed our own HR mashers

Punt the season

Eem wrote:Man, I think Pagan is clearly the best CF option on the market and I really don't know what I'm missing here with all the whining

He probably is. He's also not all that good of a player offensively. There probably aren't any better FA options if you can't get Hamilton which just makes me sad. I

We're a team with an enormous payroll (and payroll commitment) that has massive holes in at least 3 of our 8 positions, a 2B that I love but can't really be counted on, a declining immobile 1B, a suspended C, a unproven platoon in LF, and JRoll. That's not so good.

I look forward to all of the owners bitching in a couple of seasons about player salaries because these idiots decided to give the most mediocre players ever buckets full of money.

The latest buzz on the Phillies, courtesy of Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com...

•Though the team has some interest in the major free agent center fielders, they're also eyeing Dexter Fowler and Peter Bourjos as potential trade targets. Bourjos is projected to start for the Halos, however.
•There has been some communication between the Phillies and Ichiro Suzuki's camp, though it's unclear who reached out.
•The Phillies have interest in the Rangers' Michael Young for third base, but they'd need Young to approve the trade and the Rangers to pick up part of the tab. Young, 36, is owed $16MM in 2013, though part of his salary is deferred.

Trent Steele wrote:We're a team with an enormous payroll (and payroll commitment) that has massive holes in at least 3 of our 8 positions, a 2B that I love but can't really be counted on, a declining immobile 1B, a suspended C, a unproven platoon in LF, and JRoll. That's not so good.

And despite all that and a rash of injuries, we were in the race until the final 10 days. And are gonna be adding two or three solid/good hitters and/or a bullpen arm.

:hayek:

Eem wrote:Man, I think Pagan is clearly the best CF option on the market and I really don't know what I'm missing here with all the whining

1. $11M+ for someone that's never been an All-Star
2. Still has traces of Dirty Met stink

ok, oof, oooooooof

Doll Is Mine wrote:The latest buzz on the Phillies, courtesy of Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com...

•Though the team has some interest in the major free agent center fielders, they're also eyeing Dexter Fowler and Peter Bourjos as potential trade targets. Bourjos is projected to start for the Halos, however.
•There has been some communication between the Phillies and Ichiro Suzuki's camp, though it's unclear who reached out.
•The Phillies have interest in the Rangers' Michael Young for third base, but they'd need Young to approve the trade and the Rangers to pick up part of the tab. Young, 36, is owed $16MM in 2013, though part of his salary is deferred.

If they trade for Michael Young, that's it for me.

I'm fine with Pagan because I feel there is another OF move coming via trade or FA.

Not feeling Ichiro and would only even consider Young at like $3M/yr if there was scouting/medical reason to expect rebound

Any rumors as to where Vic is going?

Trent Steele wrote:

Eem wrote:Man, I think Pagan is clearly the best CF option on the market and I really don't know what I'm missing here with all the whining

He probably is. He's also not all that good of a player offensively. There probably aren't any better FA options if you can't get Hamilton which just makes me sad. I

We're a team with an enormous payroll (and payroll commitment) that has massive holes in at least 3 of our 8 positions, a 2B that I love but can't really be counted on, a declining immobile 1B, a suspended C, a unproven platoon in LF, and JRoll. That's not so good.

They also have an elite rotation, a top-three relief pitcher, a lot of good young arms, and room to add a setup man in the bullpen. If there's anything the Giants have proven, it's that you can win a World Series with great pitching, solid D, and a patched-together offense. It takes some luck, sure, but the Phils had none in 2012 and still were a .500 team.

I think the Phils would be right to try to squeeze another title out of what they have. It's either that or blowing it all up, and I haven't seen one person suggest that in between all the crying about the FA market (which is understandable).

But given the FA market, how can anyone say Amaro isn't approaching it correctly, unless you just want him to leave all the holes as they are? And if that's the case, why wouldn't the Phillies just blow it up?

Grotewold wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:We're a team with an enormous payroll (and payroll commitment) that has massive holes in at least 3 of our 8 positions, a 2B that I love but can't really be counted on, a declining immobile 1B, a suspended C, a unproven platoon in LF, and JRoll. That's not so good.

And despite all that and a rash of injuries, we were in the race until the final 10 days. And are gonna be adding two or three solid/good hitters and/or a bullpen arm.

:hayek:

That's cool except you're not really adding because you had solid players in Pence and Victorino last year that won't be improved upon by getting Pagan and Ross. Those are no better than lateral moves.

I hear ya though. I need to lower my expectations from "elite team with performance commensurate with by-far-highest-payroll-in-NL" to "mismanaged clusterfuck that should be able to challenge for one game wild card playoff if people stay healthy."

Trent Steele wrote:That's cool except you're not really adding because you had solid players in Pence and Victorino last year that won't be improved upon by getting Pagan and Ross. Those are no better than lateral moves.

I hear ya though. I need to lower my expectations from "elite team with performance commensurate with by-far-highest-payroll-in-NL" to "mismanaged clusterfuck that should be able to challenge for one game wild card playoff if people stay healthy."

Agreed on the outfield, most likely, but 3B and the bullpen may well be improved. And the rotation could be a lot better. He whom I shall not name should be better.

edit: also, LF could be more productive this year with a Ruf/Brown/Nix platoon, despite Pierre's high batting average and SBs

Eem wrote: But given the FA market, how can anyone say Amaro isn't approaching it correctly, unless you just want him to leave all the holes as they are? And if that's the case, why wouldn't the Phillies just blow it up?

OK, this goes to my point about signing Pagan being lazy. It's like GM-paint-by-numbers. There's nothing "wrong" with it but it doesn't mean it's optimal - need CF, go after best CF, best CF signs elsewhere, go after 2nd best CF, pay significant premium, and so on. I'd like to see him be more creative.

This is why it's hard for me to answer "what else would you have done if you were GM?" I don't know. Could you get a Josh Willingham if you overpaid in prospects? Could you swing a deal Ellsbury? Is Alex Gordon available? There are GMs that think outside the FA box. I'd like to see more of that instead of just buying the next most expensive car in the lot.

Trent Steele wrote:

Eem wrote: But given the FA market, how can anyone say Amaro isn't approaching it correctly, unless you just want him to leave all the holes as they are? And if that's the case, why wouldn't the Phillies just blow it up?

OK, this goes to my point about signing Pagan being lazy. It's like GM-paint-by-numbers. There's nothing "wrong" with it but it doesn't mean it's optimal - need CF, go after best CF, best CF signs elsewhere, go after 2nd best CF, pay significant premium, and so on. I'd like to see him be more creative.

This is why it's hard for me to answer "what else would you have done if you were GM?" I don't know. Could you get a Josh Willingham if you overpaid in prospects? Could you swing a deal Ellsbury? Is Alex Gordon available? There are GMs that think outside the FA box. I'd like to see more of that instead of just buying the next most expensive car in the lot.

I hope that Amaro at least considered that, yeah. But you could make a strong argument we have more money than high-value prospects at this point.