The Dude wrote:

Shore wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:If they get Michael Young......

Stop being so negative. If we get him he'll be only the first of several great moves to come. We already signed Hamels. The Braves lol are paying Upton a lot of money. At least we don't have that coke fiend Hamilton. Maybe we can get Swisher too. Blah blah blah.

you really are trolling now

Not really. I'm angry that our team, which was great, is now mediocre. And nothing that I'm reading about makes me think we're reversing that course. The solutions we're allegedly considering aren't solutions, they're mediocre patches on a mediocre team.

THey have been attached to every player now. You are either not reading every story or are just noticing the ones where you hate a player. There's no reason to be angry yet. THe bitching used to be about signing guys too early. Now it's about not trading a top prospect for Span or...what, bc nothing has happened besides trying to trade for a great reliever, but his physical didn't work out.

Shore wrote:

The Dude wrote:

Shore wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:If they get Michael Young......

Stop being so negative. If we get him he'll be only the first of several great moves to come. We already signed Hamels. The Braves lol are paying Upton a lot of money. At least we don't have that coke fiend Hamilton. Maybe we can get Swisher too. Blah blah blah.

you really are trolling now

Not really. I'm angry that our team, which was great, is now mediocre. And nothing that I'm reading about makes me think we're reversing that course. The solutions we're allegedly considering aren't solutions, they're mediocre patches on a mediocre team.

What about Denard Span isn't a mediocre player?

There are no clear obvious slam dunk great moves. I wouldn't have been heartbroken if they'd given Upton the deal he got, but I don't think it's a great bargain either.

The team developed an amazing homegrown core, saw their revenue spike, then tried to use their resources to augment the core. Now the whole team is old, the competition is better and their only remaining advantage is money. It's a tough situation, made worse by the fact that their free agent moves have cost a bunch of draft picks.

mcare89 wrote:

Shore wrote:

The Dude wrote:

Shore wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:If they get Michael Young......

Stop being so negative. If we get him he'll be only the first of several great moves to come. We already signed Hamels. The Braves lol are paying Upton a lot of money. At least we don't have that coke fiend Hamilton. Maybe we can get Swisher too. Blah blah blah.

you really are trolling now

Not really. I'm angry that our team, which was great, is now mediocre. And nothing that I'm reading about makes me think we're reversing that course. The solutions we're allegedly considering aren't solutions, they're mediocre patches on a mediocre team.

What about Denard Span isn't a mediocre player?

I don't love Span. He's just an upgrade for the Nats, and he's young, and he's cheap.

We're discussing players who, in my opinion, aren't upgrades, aren't young, and aren't cheap.

I don't think we're a playoff team. I don't want to hamstring us for the next 4 years, any worse than Howard already has, in order to make a superficial effort at something. I want a plan, and I want it executed.

he's 29 and cost a top prospect. pagan has been better 3 of the last 4 years, and is going to be 31 and likely won't cost a ton, and won't cost prospects. what's the problem with that?

Shore wrote:

mcare89 wrote:

Shore wrote:

The Dude wrote:

Shore wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:If they get Michael Young......

Stop being so negative. If we get him he'll be only the first of several great moves to come. We already signed Hamels. The Braves lol are paying Upton a lot of money. At least we don't have that coke fiend Hamilton. Maybe we can get Swisher too. Blah blah blah.

you really are trolling now

Not really. I'm angry that our team, which was great, is now mediocre. And nothing that I'm reading about makes me think we're reversing that course. The solutions we're allegedly considering aren't solutions, they're mediocre patches on a mediocre team.

What about Denard Span isn't a mediocre player?

I don't love Span. He's just an upgrade for the Nats, and he's young, and he's cheap.

We're discussing players who, in my opinion, aren't upgrades, aren't young, and aren't cheap.

I don't think we're a playoff team. I don't want to hamstring us for the next 4 years, any worse than Howard already has, in order to make a superficial effort at something. I want a plan, and I want it executed.

The last 3 years, Denard Span has an OPS+ of 95. Last year was his best career year at 105. There are plenty of center fielders that are as productive or more productive than Span. Would you have rather traded Biddle for Span than signed Pagan for 4 years?

The Dude wrote:he's 29 and cost a top prospect. pagan has been better 3 of the last 4 years, and is going to be 31 and likely won't cost a ton, and won't cost prospects. what's the problem with that?

?? Never said I thought we should trade a top prospect for him. Said he, and Grienke if they get him, help the Nats.

Unless I posted something I don't recall, I never pined for Span here.

Also, wasn't signing Papelbon last year "having a plan and executing it?"

Rah rah rah, Phillies might sign someone i hate rah rah rah, if they do Rube is a moron rah rah rah.

mcare89 wrote:

Shore wrote:

mcare89 wrote:

Shore wrote:

The Dude wrote:

Shore wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:If they get Michael Young......

Stop being so negative. If we get him he'll be only the first of several great moves to come. We already signed Hamels. The Braves lol are paying Upton a lot of money. At least we don't have that coke fiend Hamilton. Maybe we can get Swisher too. Blah blah blah.

you really are trolling now

Not really. I'm angry that our team, which was great, is now mediocre. And nothing that I'm reading about makes me think we're reversing that course. The solutions we're allegedly considering aren't solutions, they're mediocre patches on a mediocre team.

What about Denard Span isn't a mediocre player?

I don't love Span. He's just an upgrade for the Nats, and he's young, and he's cheap.

We're discussing players who, in my opinion, aren't upgrades, aren't young, and aren't cheap.

I don't think we're a playoff team. I don't want to hamstring us for the next 4 years, any worse than Howard already has, in order to make a superficial effort at something. I want a plan, and I want it executed.

The last 3 years, Denard Span has an OPS+ of 95. Last year was his best career year at 105. There are plenty of center fielders that are as productive or more productive than Span. Would you have rather traded Biddle for Span than signed Pagan for 4 years?

Where is this "Shore wanted to trade Biddle for Span" straw man coming from? And the choices aren't that or sign Pagan for 4 years - I'd prefer neither.

mcare89 wrote:Also, wasn't signing Papelbon last year "having a plan and executing it?"

Yeah, and I was and am fine with it.

Shore wrote:

The Dude wrote:he's 29 and cost a top prospect. pagan has been better 3 of the last 4 years, and is going to be 31 and likely won't cost a ton, and won't cost prospects. what's the problem with that?

?? Never said I thought we should trade a top prospect for him. Said he, and Grienke if they get him, help the Nats.

Unless I posted something I don't recall, I never pined for Span here.

you said span was cheap player, and phils would overspend. span cost a top prospect, and isn't better than waht's available. i'd rather the phils spend money on similar players, especially ones that have been better.

Shore wrote:

mcare89 wrote:

Shore wrote:

mcare89 wrote:

Shore wrote:

The Dude wrote:

Shore wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:If they get Michael Young......

Stop being so negative. If we get him he'll be only the first of several great moves to come. We already signed Hamels. The Braves lol are paying Upton a lot of money. At least we don't have that coke fiend Hamilton. Maybe we can get Swisher too. Blah blah blah.

you really are trolling now

Not really. I'm angry that our team, which was great, is now mediocre. And nothing that I'm reading about makes me think we're reversing that course. The solutions we're allegedly considering aren't solutions, they're mediocre patches on a mediocre team.

What about Denard Span isn't a mediocre player?

I don't love Span. He's just an upgrade for the Nats, and he's young, and he's cheap.

We're discussing players who, in my opinion, aren't upgrades, aren't young, and aren't cheap.

I don't think we're a playoff team. I don't want to hamstring us for the next 4 years, any worse than Howard already has, in order to make a superficial effort at something. I want a plan, and I want it executed.

The last 3 years, Denard Span has an OPS+ of 95. Last year was his best career year at 105. There are plenty of center fielders that are as productive or more productive than Span. Would you have rather traded Biddle for Span than signed Pagan for 4 years?

Where is this "Shore wanted to trade Biddle for Span" straw man coming from? And the choices aren't that or sign Pagan for 4 years - I'd prefer neither.

Your argument was "while the Nationals are going out and getting players like Span, we're sitting here looking at nothing but old shitty mediocre players" when Span is both mediocre and not nearly as young as you seem to think, and also cost them a top 50 pitching prospect, which is why I proposed Biddle as the Phillies equivalent.

I don't understand what you'd like them to do in the short-term to improve the team.

Tyson Gillies and that Collier kid are young and cheap so we have that covered. Skinny hands too.

yes, but how are their hands???

Bucky wrote:yes, but how are their hands???

Best shape of their life

I kind of think the CF four years from now will be Roman Quinn. But the potential that Gillies or Collier gets it together sooner than that is probably sufficient to not clog the spot with an overpaid mediocrity like Pagan through the rest of the likely window for contention. Where they're short right now is in guys who contribute far in excess of their compensation. At best, Pagan--like most FAs--will be worth what they pay him.

If he sucks, he likely won't keep his job. He hasn't been mediocre most of the last 4 years. In two years, do you think a shitty player will block a prospect ready to play?

My entire treatment of Span:

These are like nightmare scenarios dor me. All old, expensive, shitty players. While the Nats get Span and maybe Grienke, and the Braves get Upton

I said that Span, Grienke, and Upton are counterexamples of "old, expensive, shitty" players. Span's 28, makes under $5M, and is mediocre offensively. He's not old, expensive, and shitty. He's prime, inexpensive, and shitty.

Old players get worse. Old players get hurt more. Old players make more money. We have old and expensive and hurt covered. Ruiz plays next year at 34, Howard at 33, Utley 34, Rollins 34. Halladay is 36 and Lee 34.

I'm hoping like hell we figure out a way to fill our "needs" without dropping 4+ years and $10M+ AAV on guys who are 30+ years old and slightly better than an average major leaguer.