Anyone happy with a 4-year deal for Pagan where we outbid his current team is just dying to be happy about something. It's a bad move.

Amaro's landed some damned big whales, but he's really done a poor job, overall, to date.

you're not even reading this correctly

The Dude wrote:you're not even reading this correctly

Then help me out.

the strongest thing said about him is he's not a bad player, and that it can't be the only move if he is signed. nobody is happy that he might be coming here on a 4 year deal

If this is anything more than just an appetizer for the bangin ass main course then ima be irrationally pist yo

I vaguely remember Amaro saying during the season that his goal was to sign/acquire a middle of the order power hitter. Angel Pagan is not that.

i know he said he wanted to improve the bullpen. pagan is not that, either

I can't fathom giving such an average player like pagan, coming off a career year a 4 year deal. Fuck that.

Career year suggests he hasn't had similar seasons before. He's not a bad player, the phillies need a CF, and if this is only one of several significant moves than great.

I mean I don't want to jump to conclusions mat either but there aren't really any other batts out there other than Hamilton

let´s review.

there was a glut of outfield on the market this offseason, but...
victorino, pagan, bourn, swisher, and hamilton will all be in their aging/decline periods.
span and fowler have home/road issues.
hamilton and bourn are seeking mega-contracts.
upton maybe has an attitude problem and worryingly declining plate discipline.
young has injury issues.
pagan and fowler and bourn are coming off of anomalously good seasons and will be overly expensive.
hamilton and bourn are lefty hitters. swisher has no power versus lefties.
hamilton and swisher play center. and a bunch of issues i´m sure to be missing.

oh, and by my best estimates, the phillies need to add about 6 wins of talent to become a leading contender again, even if halladay and utley and worley are healthy again, 3b isn´t going to help unless youkilis finds the greek god of health, so a defense-only cf could leave the offense dangerously weak, so we almost have to add a legit cf with a decent bat since there aren´t any 6-win corner outfielders on the market. (no, hamilton isn´t that good)

i think it is going too far to declare a pagan signing a disaster before we know the salary number.
at the right price, he could add flexibility rather than hurt it. if his salary leaves cash over to get youkilis and/or swisher and/or uehara, and.or a real starter to replace kendrick, it could be part of a good plan.
those pieces together can add up to my 6 wins and so what if pagan transitions to a platoon/backup role towards the end of his contract. that can be a piece that helps the phillies put together cheap and effective outfields... as long as he doesn´t get paid too much.

if he gets $7 million aav or under , that´s fine with me. if he gets more that about $11million, i´ll be pretty worried (i needed to adjust my earlier estimates by regression to league me, though that is partly cancelled by salary inflation), between those numbers is kinda gray for me.

in and above the gray zone, crisp and fowler look like better alternatives. the latter works for me if and only if we replace the traded pitching with smart choices on the free agent starter market. then we can deal with the gamble taken on fowler´s youth and upside.

joe table wrote:I mean I don't want to jump to conclusions mat either but there aren't really any other batts out there other than Hamilton

Nick Swisher says hi.

Bourn: Figgins :: Pagan: Rowand

Though Pagan has a bit of Polanco to him as well--they'll sell him as that sort of "fundamentally sound" player. Ugh.

At this point, it seems obvious to me that the best, or maybe least-worst, move for CF would be to sign Victorino to the shortest deal he'd take. But it also seems like they simply don't want him back.

pagan being like polanco would be a good thing in my book.
polanco was elite in his age 31 season, and easily worth $10 million per year for the next 4 years (including his first 2 with the phils). a 2 to 4 win player, with a decent balance of offense and defense.
if pagan matches polanco´s phillies career by being more than worth his salary until the last year of his contract, i can deal with the sucky last year. if he matches polanco´s age 31-34 seasons, he´ll be a hugely productive bargain.

We checked in on Figgins but the extent of the interest was unknown, per #analysis

JFLNYC wrote:

joe table wrote:I mean I don't want to jump to conclusions mat either but there aren't really any other batts out there other than Hamilton

Nick Swisher says hi.

he'd be a nice fit. i haven't seen his name mentioned by any of the local writers, but a search finds that bob nightengale mentioned the phils as one of four nl teams being linked to him. he also named the nats, braves and giants. i would assume the nats and braves are no longer interested. the only question is what kind of absurd contract he wants. i'd much prefer to him pagan.

I think Pagan is a great fit and if they sign him, he's pretty clearly the first of at least two "impact" moves.

The Phils got outbid by $4m/yr on Upton, their "guy." When's the last time we saw that? Seems to me that either the Phils weren't totally interested, or they refused to go through a glass cieling to sign him knowing they had to do other stuff.

I doubt they'll have to even approach that cieling to sign Pagan.

swisher came out during the season and said he wanted a Wertz like contract

I'd also like a BJ from Emma Watson

give her a Wertz like contract then