Who doesn't like Ryan Howard? I think you're the one shifting the discussion here

All you Howard haters go fuck youselves.

phdave wrote:All you Howard haters go fuck youselves.

Ryan Howard is a hero to school children, grandmothers, and war veterans, and rooting for him is rooting for truth, justice, and the American Way.

So there.

I love Ryan Howard, I just wish he weren't on the team at his current cost. I would love if he were on the team at a cost that made sense. or if we just had a different first baseman who didn't drag down the entire payroll

i don't think there's anything wrong with that. I liked Mike Vick when he was a backup QB. I liked Andy Reid when he was going to NFC Championship Games. I like Ilya Bryzgalov but wish he didn't make 10x what he should. This isn't a binary argument.

Eh, guess I'm wrong then, nevermind

Phylan wrote:Who doesn't like Ryan Howard?

The SABR community as a whole seems to regard him a tick above Jerry Sandusky. I guess because of the mouth breathers who enjoy home runs and consistent RBI production (and, lol, positive clubhouse presence) cluttering their Twitter feeds.

When Howard struggles and mouth breathers turn on him, the "advanced" tweeters just pile on. But when that happens to A-Rod, for instance, it goes the other way. He's unfairly maligned and pretty certain to bounce back.

These veteran sluggers are all "overpaid." Yet who among them receives even a quarter of the criticism Howard does? So back to McNeal's question....why? Is there a tidal wave of Howard-contract defenders that needs to be swatted back?

Barry Jive wrote:I love Ryan Howard, I just wish he weren't on the team at his current cost. I would love if he were on the team at a cost that made sense.

How many teams' fans could say the same thing about someone, incessantly? But do they? Giants fans held a social media campaign yesterday to support Zito, ffs.

Grotewold wrote:

Barry Jive wrote:I love Ryan Howard, I just wish he weren't on the team at his current cost. I would love if he were on the team at a cost that made sense.

How many teams' fans could say the same thing about someone, incessantly? But do they? Giants fans held a social media campaign yesterday to support Zito, ffs.

i think your second statement contradicts your first statement.

ReadingPhilly wrote:

Grotewold wrote:

Barry Jive wrote:I love Ryan Howard, I just wish he weren't on the team at his current cost. I would love if he were on the team at a cost that made sense.

How many teams' fans could say the same thing about someone, incessantly? But do they? Giants fans held a social media campaign yesterday to support Zito, ffs.

i think your second statement contradicts your first statement.

I don't. It was partly ironic/sarcastic, I'm guessing, but it still happened. Here and among the advanced bloggers, as it relates to Howard, it would have been FML RIP Phils.

Even still, I talked to a ton of Giants fans when I was out there and didn't hear a word about Zito's contract.

i would guess there has been quite a bit of bitching about his contract if they needed a social media campaign to support one of their own players. what fan wouldn't support the starting pitcher in an elimination game? i agree that the howard bitching runs rampant. i agree with it, but don't feel the need to be incessant about it. especially since rube is the one who fucked up. i don't think fans are rooting for him to fail though, outside of crashburnalley maybe. i'd be giddy if he puts up monster numbers and shames guys like sheehan and law.

I like Big Bird. I even like Jim Lehrer.

if i were a giants fan i would hate barry zito but be happy he pitched good last night

smitty wrote:
Howard is an RBI man. And he should get credit for that.

for fangraphs fans, this boils down to deciding whether to put a greater emphasis on WAR or on WPA.
howard sucks in WAR wins relative to his pay (paying for 5 wins a year, getting 1.5) , but in the WPA situationally leveraged wins he close to earning his pay when healthy, thanks to hitting better than most in the highly leveraged men-in-scoring position situations.
i´ve been known to go with WPA for relievers and leadoff hitters. the former are brought in specifically to deal with highly leveraged situations, and the latter are supposed to pecialize adapting their on-base and baserunning performance to match the situation. in either case, performance in leveraged situations is supposed to be a matter of skill rather than luck. speed doesn´t slump, so it seemed plausible to me that fireballing relievers and speedy leadoff guys actually can be consistent clutch performers.

i have been unwilling to believe that this applied to rbi specialists, because lots of people have tried and failed to find evidence of consistent clutch-hitting abilities. however, i am coming around to the idea that howard may be a special case. the extreme shift works consistently well, and is a big part of the decline of his overall hitting and WAR value. by extension, when having men on base takes away part of the shift it is not surprising that the hitting effectiveness consistently goes back up, making howard, effectively, that rarest of creatures: the true clutch hitter.

Phylan wrote:shifting

relevant

I love how Utley looks like Oliver Perez and Rollins Wilson Valdez, but they get Howard's nose exactly right, smdh

Grotewold wrote:I love how Utley looks like Oliver Perez and Rollins Wilson Valdez, but they get Howard's nose exactly right, smdh

racism alive and well in october 2012

1 out of 3 ain't bad. or is it?

That would have been some infield a few years ago.

are they saying in that article we should have of kept Brandon Moss