Essentially trading Lee's age 34-36/37 seasons for Cole's 29-35 seasons plus whatever Lee gets us in trade (Olt/Perez)? Yeah, I'd do that.

It probably would hurt the team's image with agents and players. But that's much less important than continuing to win, and keeping the younger ace plus adding talent helps there.

Thought it was generally accepted that it was Taylor for Brown. D'arnaud was going regardless. So no, I'd obviously rather have Brown.

Besides that I guess I'm still struggling with what you're saying. We trade for Halladay, then in 2009-2010 winter, we do nothing involving Halladay/Lee. We're left with Carrasco/Marson/Taylor/Knapp/Donald which I'm not sure I prefer to Aumont/Ramirez/Gillies/Brown.

So then if we have Lee's money, we apply it to Werth? Which means we don't trade for Pence? But then we probably, given Smug's mindset, make that same type of trade for a Pence like pitcher?

This is making my head hurt.

jeff2sf wrote:Thought it was generally accepted that it was Taylor for Brown. D'arnaud was going regardless. So no, I'd obviously rather have Brown.

what

jeff2sf wrote:Besides that I guess I'm still struggling with what you're saying. We trade for Halladay, then in 2009-2010 winter, we do nothing involving Halladay/Lee. We're left with Carrasco/Marson/Taylor/Knapp/Donald which I'm not sure I prefer to Aumont/Ramirez/Gillies/Brown.

So then if we have Lee's money, we apply it to Werth? Which means we don't trade for Pence? But then we probably, given Smug's mindset, make that same type of trade for a Pence like pitcher?

This is making my head hurt.

I didn't mean to turn this into a big thing. Just kind of interesting to me to look back.

I guess the main thing is never getting and falling in love with Lee would have kept us much, much more financially flexible the past two years, and onward. I'd have to go back and see which bats were available after 2010, but I doubt we would have gone into the season without someone impactful (ie, making the Pence trade much less likely). I said I'm assuming that Oswalt trade still happens, and probably no trade/signing for a fourth ace in 2011 (since the Lee signing was a splurge)

So -- we'd still have the second batch of Astros prospects and a lower payroll. And, most likely, a less-good team, of course, but one in better position for the future.

Ok and to be clear, I was saying I thought the offer would have been D'arnaud/Drabek/Brown instead of D'arnaud/Drabek/Taylor. And so I'd rather have Brown than Taylor.

jeff2sf wrote:Ok and to be clear, I was saying I thought the offer would have been D'arnaud/Drabek/Brown instead of D'arnaud/Drabek/Taylor. And so I'd rather have Brown than Taylor.

OK, I gotcha. Yeah it's hard to really analyze this without knowing for sure what Toronto wanted, and why the Phils balked.

It would be interesting to see what Lee's trade value is. Texas would probably give up a couple real good prospects for the guarantee of signing Cole at like 7-160 (hypothetical trade with signing window). Cole is significantly younger, but I don't know that he's any better than Lee right now. If they get Lee they're on the hook for 3 guaranteed years at 87.5mm, plus a vesting option for a net price of 15mm. I would think Lee's contract would be viewed as very valuable by a big market team just because of the (reasonable) amount of years involved

Would they give up Cruz and a good prospect, say Olt, for Lee? That would clear about 14mm of "cap" space from lux tax threshold next year (Cruz makes 10.5mm), and would make Texas better on the whole this year. We may have the leverage to demand Cruz since there is no urgency to move Lee. Haven't heard anything about extension talks with Cruz either, and they need to take care of Hamilton. Then we could either keep Cruz and Pence in the corners next year, with money to sign Chole, or flip Pence for more useful cheap parts

Grotewold wrote:

jeff2sf wrote:Ok and to be clear, I was saying I thought the offer would have been D'arnaud/Drabek/Brown instead of D'arnaud/Drabek/Taylor. And so I'd rather have Brown than Taylor.

OK, I gotcha. Yeah it's hard to really analyze this without knowing for sure what Toronto wanted, and why the Phils balked.

I know they wanted Gose (though I'm not sure how the trade would have changed were he included). They flipped Brett Wallace for him as soon as we gave him to Houston

spaz being spaz

blizzard is pretty fucking awesome

Putting Sandoval at first base would mean having Joaquin Arias’ bat in the lineup with Belt on the bench. That wouldn’t seem to be a very good idea, even though Belt continues to struggle to make consistent contact.

But it might open another avenue for GM Brian Sabean to bolster the lineup. If he can’t acquire a first baseman ahead of the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, what about a third baseman?

There aren’t many attractive third basemen expected to be made available, but Sabean is known to value an experienced player such as the Phillies’ Placido Polanco. It’s highly unlikely, but if the Giants want to think big, and that means taking on some big-time salary commitments, they could gamble on the Marlins’ Hanley Ramirez.

Oh, please, please!

was reading sports illustrated and they were throwing out trade scenarios they would like to see happen in regards to guys on the market. hamels was offered to texas for olt+. pence was offered to the pirates for starling marte. i'd love that trade

JFLNYC wrote:

Putting Sandoval at first base would mean having Joaquin Arias’ bat in the lineup with Belt on the bench. That wouldn’t seem to be a very good idea, even though Belt continues to struggle to make consistent contact.

But it might open another avenue for GM Brian Sabean to bolster the lineup. If he can’t acquire a first baseman ahead of the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, what about a third baseman?

There aren’t many attractive third basemen expected to be made available, but Sabean is known to value an experienced player such as the Phillies’ Placido Polanco. It’s highly unlikely, but if the Giants want to think big, and that means taking on some big-time salary commitments, they could gamble on the Marlins’ Hanley Ramirez.

Oh, please, please!

.243/.357/.396 good for a 109 wRC+ from a 24-year-old. Not good enough!

Barry Jive wrote:I know they wanted Gose (though I'm not sure how the trade would have changed were he included). They flipped Brett Wallace for him as soon as we gave him to Houston

Interesting to see them acquire Happ today, too. Would Happ/Brown/Gose + have been enough?

Sabean is awful

I don't care if the Giants won the WS, we could probably get Lincecum as a reclamation for Polanco right now

I don't think I'd take Lincecum for free. He's broken and owed 22.5mm next year

joe table wrote:I don't think I'd take Lincecum for free. He's broken and owed 22.5mm next year

He'll still pitch a 3 hit shutout tonight

joe table wrote:I don't think I'd take Lincecum for free. He's broken and owed 22.5mm next year

Rube will just ask Sabean to pay for it

NIX to continue rehab assignment in LHV

Grotewold wrote:NIX to continue rehab assignment in LHV

:whowhat?:

Well, that should end Juan Pierre then. Trade him to a contender and go with Nix I suppose. Even though I don't want to do that.