Houshphandzadeh wrote:

smitty wrote:There were quite a few folks who wanted to keep him in 2007. Glad we didn't.

I don't know if there's ever been a collective shrug as unpronounced as the one when he signed with the Giants

philliesphhan wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:

smitty wrote:There were quite a few folks who wanted to keep him in 2007. Glad we didn't.

I don't know if there's ever been a collective shrug as unpronounced as the one when he signed with the Giants

That one guy who used to post here (not sure if he still does) thought the #1 priority in that offseason was to sign Rowand.

1) Re-sign Rowand
2) New pitching coach
3) Return Myers to the rotation

CFP wrote:Today's Phillies calendar fact: "No native of Hawaii has hit more Major League triples than Shane Victorino (32 through 2009)". Really. I thought Benny Agbayani had him beat.

philliesphhan wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:

smitty wrote:There were quite a few folks who wanted to keep him in 2007. Glad we didn't.

I don't know if there's ever been a collective shrug as unpronounced as the one when he signed with the Giants

That one guy who used to post here (not sure if he still does) thought the #1 priority in that offseason was to sign Rowand.

Search helped. BuddyGroom:

1) Re-sign Rowand
2) New pitching coach
3) Return Myers to the rotation

philliesphhan wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:

smitty wrote:There were quite a few folks who wanted to keep him in 2007. Glad we didn't.

I don't know if there's ever been a collective shrug as unpronounced as the one when he signed with the Giants

That one guy who used to post here (not sure if he still does) thought the #1 priority in that offseason was to sign Rowand.

etched Chaos wrote:Just read a column from ages ago downplaying Carlton's '72 win total, linked via HBT (well duh). Whilst I'm not overly bothered by people downplaying win totals, something irked me about the column. The writer was comparing Carlton's ERa from wins that year (1.12) against the ERA from Felix's wins last year (0.79), now on the surface Felix's ERA in wins looks alot better than Carlton's. However, Carlton had a 1.12 ERA over 27 wins, Felix mustered a measly 11 wins. So Carlton has a similar ERA in 2.5x the amount of games than Felix and on top of that he completed 30 games that season.

Now the thing is the writer was comparing the run support both pitchers got in wins (3.8 Carlton, 3.2 Felix), and in losses (Carlton 3, Felix 2.2), now the thing is that Steve Carlton had a 1.12 ERA over 27 wins, and a total ERA of 1.9 over 41 games, it doesn't matter what run support he got that year he was going to have a gaudy win total due to the fact he:

1) Completed 30 games
2) Had a 1.9 ERA for the season
3) Had a 1.12 ERA for his 27 wins

That season alone is a prime example of a pitcher's win total being a representation of how unbelievable he was that year. Sure it's not an adequate example you can cite for win totals at all but I was just irked that someone did a shallow dissection with the aim of dismissing his win total. I mean seriously, everything about that season was built for a stupidly high amount of wins, even if a couple of his wins become no-decisions or losses you still have an unbelievable amount of wins for a pitcher when his team won 59 games total. Hell, you could stick the '72 Carlton on last year's M's and this year's Giants and he'd hit 20 wins without much problem.

*edit*A few extra points:

Carlton averaged 8.4 IP per start, he won 65% of his starts, whilst winning 45% of the team's wins. There couldn't be a more ideal season for a pitcher being responsible for his wins. The man was a machine.

Lee has 11 scoreless starts of at least seven innings pitched, easily the most in the majors and the most since John Tudor and Dwight Gooden both had 11 such starts in 1985. The last pitcher to have MORE than 11 in one season was Bob Gibson -- he threw 13 in 1968, the year he finished with a 1.12 ERA.

BigEd76 wrote:Blanton is back


(oh and Kendrick too)

Barry Jive wrote:FIVE ACES

smitty wrote:

etched Chaos wrote:Just read a column from ages ago downplaying Carlton's '72 win total, linked via HBT (well duh). Whilst I'm not overly bothered by people downplaying win totals, something irked me about the column. The writer was comparing Carlton's ERa from wins that year (1.12) against the ERA from Felix's wins last year (0.79), now on the surface Felix's ERA in wins looks alot better than Carlton's. However, Carlton had a 1.12 ERA over 27 wins, Felix mustered a measly 11 wins. So Carlton has a similar ERA in 2.5x the amount of games than Felix and on top of that he completed 30 games that season.

Now the thing is the writer was comparing the run support both pitchers got in wins (3.8 Carlton, 3.2 Felix), and in losses (Carlton 3, Felix 2.2), now the thing is that Steve Carlton had a 1.12 ERA over 27 wins, and a total ERA of 1.9 over 41 games, it doesn't matter what run support he got that year he was going to have a gaudy win total due to the fact he:

1) Completed 30 games
2) Had a 1.9 ERA for the season
3) Had a 1.12 ERA for his 27 wins

That season alone is a prime example of a pitcher's win total being a representation of how unbelievable he was that year. Sure it's not an adequate example you can cite for win totals at all but I was just irked that someone did a shallow dissection with the aim of dismissing his win total. I mean seriously, everything about that season was built for a stupidly high amount of wins, even if a couple of his wins become no-decisions or losses you still have an unbelievable amount of wins for a pitcher when his team won 59 games total. Hell, you could stick the '72 Carlton on last year's M's and this year's Giants and he'd hit 20 wins without much problem.

*edit*A few extra points:

Carlton averaged 8.4 IP per start, he won 65% of his starts, whilst winning 45% of the team's wins. There couldn't be a more ideal season for a pitcher being responsible for his wins. The man was a machine.

I remember Bill James wrote an article about the latter day late 70s early 80s version of Lefty. He mentioned that while other Ace pitchers would suffer some "tough" losses each year, that is, allow one or two runs but still lose the game, The Franchise would be the one hanging the "tough" losses on the other guy. He had some really great record in games in which his own team scored only one or two runs.

I do know that in 1972 Carlton was the greatest pitcher I ever saw. And I don't care what kind of revisionist high fiving white guy ever writes about it, that will not change.

smitty wrote:Traded guys update:

Carrasco with Cleveland: 8-9/4.62 ERA/124 2/3 IP/85 K/40 BB. On DL with elbow inflammation.

Trainer Lonnie Soloff said Carrasco will have surgery performed by Dr. David Altchek in New York on Sept. 14. Soloff said that tests on Carrasco's arm early in the year, after the right-hander experienced discomfort, revealed an old injury.

"It was from when he was 14 years old," Soloff said. "Over the years, with use, the ligament weakened and didn't do its job until it came to this."

Soloff said Carrasco and the team considered another option, having surgery to clean out the elbow, but when further tests revealed more damage, the decision was made to have reconstruction. The typical recovery time is 12 to 18 months.

Chuck LaMar, the Phillies assistant general manager of player development and scouting, resigned abruptly following a meeting with GM Ruben Amaro Jr. LaMar joined the team in Oct. 2007. Amaro called LaMar's resignation a "disappointment."