I stand corrected, I obviously hadn't heard about any of that, I'm surprised I didn't at least hear about him in Factory Girl.

dajafi wrote:Also, Tina Fey=sort of my dream woman.

Ditto, except the raving liberal tendencies

I like that she's "flaunting it" on 30 Rock, it's both funny and attractive. I also think it's kind of funny that she's no dope, and hasn't spent a single episode with less than three inches of cleavage in any costume. I wouldn't consider it as much if I didn't know that she's the person in charge, and as such, is dressing herself that way on purpose.

I'm really coming to respect her as a comedian and entertainer on this front. I find most of the women that are supposed to be funny, but aren't, are limited by one factor: They aren't willing to make asses of themselves.

She's very willing to be the dopey unflattering goof. Ditto for Jennifer Saunders and Joanna Lumley (the team for whom this distinction really hit me). I know there are others that qualify, Lisa Kudrow is one (really all of the Friends girls), Kirsty Alley and Shelly Long in their time...

pacino wrote:1. Norm
2. Kevin Nealon
3. Dennis Miller


Anything else is either too old for me to have watched much of, or is just average.

I never dug Nealon on the news. I really was crushed when Miller left, so for a long time I thought I might just be biased, but even in repeats years later, his sense of humor is lost on me.

Two out of three are conservatives... hmm, pacino...

VoxOrion wrote:

pacino wrote:1. Norm
2. Kevin Nealon
3. Dennis Miller


Anything else is either too old for me to have watched much of, or is just average.

I never dug Nealon on the news. I really was crushed when Miller left, so for a long time I thought I might just be biased, but even in repeats years later, his sense of humor is lost on me.

Two out of three are conservatives... hmm, pacino...

Miller was a liberal then. Or liberalish. Then he started making big bucks and turned conservative so he could keep it all.

I'm not convinced Miller's a conservative in a worldview sense. He's mostly one of those self-involved Hollywood types who peed his pants in reaction to 9/11, and couldn't give away his liberties fast enough... add in his (totally valid and understandable) resentment of the many other self-involved Hollywood types who opposed Bush largely because they felt like they were supposed to, and a new career avenue was born.

he lives around here, i know people who have run into him, talked to him, yeah, his 'worldview' is consevative

dajafi wrote:I'm not convinced Miller's a conservative in a worldview sense. He's mostly one of those self-involved Hollywood types who peed his pants in reaction to 9/11, and couldn't give away his liberties fast enough... add in his (totally valid and understandable) resentment of the many other self-involved Hollywood types who opposed Bush largely because they felt like they were supposed to, and a new career avenue was born.

I think guys like him cater to whatever gets their face on TV. His HBO show went from fairly liberal to fairly conservative in spectrum, but all so he could pander to whomever he was talking to.

Jimmy Fallon was in that Chad Johnson Super Bowl Party commercial tonight.

I hated how he could never get through a sketch without laughing. Him and Horatio Sanz.

dajafi wrote:I'm not convinced Miller's a conservative in a worldview sense. He's mostly one of those self-involved Hollywood types who peed his pants in reaction to 9/11, and couldn't give away his liberties fast enough... add in his (totally valid and understandable) resentment of the many other self-involved Hollywood types who opposed Bush largely because they felt like they were supposed to, and a new career avenue was born.

I disagree on his overall political stance (the pee pants part I can't speak to). I've been a fan of his since the "Off-White Album" (1986ish?), he's always been fairly conservative, and was always a huge Reagan fan. In many cases, he appeared so because the others he was involved with were so not conservative, so that's certainly a framing element. I will say he used to be more fair. His "Dennis Miller Live in DC" is pretty pro Clinton/anti Newt - but even then he is still coming from a "give them a chance" angle. If anything, one could argue he was caught up in the whole "One of us is president!" hype. But by the time I saw him 1996, he told the crowd how disillusioned he was with Clinton, and would vote for Dole if he thought it wouldn't be a wasted vote. Smigel (I keep coming back to that same Terry Gross interview) and Miller were considered the conservative "balance" on the SNL writing staff through the 80's - it was his job, in many respects. This is the thing he was critical of during the Tina Fey era - he believed Fey decided that balance wasn't necessary.

He's certainly never been a "religious right" conservative, but as we've discussed in the past, assuming all conservatives come from a primarily religious/moral standpoint is a common underestimation (see Norm MacDonald [no arguing his conservativeness], Trey Parker and Matt Stone, etc).

VoxOrion wrote:I disagree on his overall political stance (the pee pants part I can't speak to). I've been a fan of his since the "Off-White Album" (1986ish?), he's always been fairly conservative, and was always a huge Reagan fan. In many cases, he appeared so because the others he was involved with were so not conservative, so that's certainly a framing element. I will say he used to be more fair. His "Dennis Miller Live in DC" is pretty pro Clinton/anti Newt - but even then he is still coming from a "give them a chance" angle. If anything, one could argue he was caught up in the whole "One of us is president!" hype. But by the time I saw him 1996, he told the crowd how disillusioned he was with Clinton, and would vote for Dole if he thought it wouldn't be a wasted vote. Smigel (I keep coming back to that same Terry Gross interview) and Miller were considered the conservative "balance" on the SNL writing staff through the 80's - it was his job, in many respects. This is the thing he was critical of during the Tina Fey era - he believed Fey decided that balance wasn't necessary.

He's certainly never been a "religious right" conservative, but as we've discussed in the past, assuming all conservatives come from a primarily religious/moral standpoint is a common underestimation (see Norm MacDonald [no arguing his conservativeness], Trey Parker and Matt Stone, etc).

Smigel's politics, based on the past few years of SNL (my wife is still something of a fan, and we're lame enough to often be home at that time Sat nights), aren't particularly tough to discern; he makes me look like Bill Bennett.

And Parker and Stone aren't conservatives--they're extreme libertarians.

Otherwise, I generally try to differentiate between "conservatives," most of whom I think are principled people who've reached different conclusions than I have, and "religious right" types, whom I often refer to as the Zombie Army. There's also a third group, where I guess Dennis Miller fits in, defined by fetishization of raw power and visceral loathing of liberals.

BDawk wrote:It was good, I must admit that I was pretty down on this show because Tina Fey was the head writer of the worst period of SNL during my lifetime

BDawk wrote: I guess I hate her because the decline and general unfunniness started and then got chronically worse under her watch.

The two funniest SNL seasons of the last 15 years were the 2000-2001 and 2001-2002 seasons, when she was head writer. The show went downhill after Will Ferrell left, but those two years were better than the 8 years that preceded them.

Well that's your opinion but I'd disagree with it completely. No season IMO from the Will Ferrel/Fey era was as good as the early to mid 90's era of Hartmen, Carrey, Sandler, Farley, Nealon, McDonald season. Let alone better then any of them. I'd catagorize her tenure as Head Writer as generally a failure and even if 2001 was a good season she was there up until last year or the year before so she trotted out complete crap for 4-5 yrs after that fact anyway.

dajafi wrote:Smigel's politics, based on the past few years of SNL (my wife is still something of a fan, and we're lame enough to often be home at that time Sat nights), aren't particularly tough to discern; he makes me look like Bill Bennett.

You're probably right. I heard the interview a few years ago - and we know it isn't likely there'd be much of a conservative as a guest on Fresh Air He might have been talking about he and Miller being "opposed" - whatever it was, he said they had a good time working together, and was specific about the fact that the head writer of the time (was it Conan?) thought it important to skewer left and right - both for humor opportunities, and for the sake of giving everyone something they'll like. He brought up that Reagan sketch that Miller wrote where Reagan was this multi-lingual genius, and how it was kind of daring, because at that time the prevalent comedy "line" on Reagan was that he was a dummy.

dajafi wrote:And Parker and Stone aren't conservatives--they're extreme libertarians.

You're right - but I still say tomato/tomatoe - they seem to come down on liberals far worse, and even defend conservative non-moral majority ideals more often than not. Although that's often what happens when someone comes out as a libertarian, and probably is what a libertarian is. Outside of the Reason crowd (for whom Parker and Stone appeared), there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistancy.

dajafi wrote:Otherwise, I generally try to differentiate between "conservatives," most of whom I think are principled people who've reached different conclusions than I have, and "religious right" types, whom I often refer to as the Zombie Army. There's also a third group, where I guess Dennis Miller fits in, defined by fetishization of raw power and visceral loathing of liberals.

You seem to be uncharacteristically hyperbolic about Miller - did he let you down?

I'm assuming pacino got to see last week's BSG by now.

I thought it was dull as dishwater, as many of you predicted. I'm really getting to that point where I'm watching the show out of habit. I probably won't be able to bail on it, but I'd be getting close if it were another show.

I didn't see last night's yet.

VoxOrion wrote:

dajafi wrote:And Parker and Stone aren't conservatives--they're extreme libertarians.

You're right - but I still say tomato/tomatoe - they seem to come down on liberals far worse, and even defend conservative non-moral majority ideals more often than not. Although that's often what happens when someone comes out as a libertarian, and probably is what a libertarian is. Outside of the Reason crowd (for whom Parker and Stone appeared), there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistancy.

Are you joking? They make fun of morality issues more than anything else including roasting religion left and right. And they really do make fun of both sides. Their humor has more parity to it than most satire Ive seen.

I originally wrote a thing about the "moral majority" aspect, but figured I covered that earlier. Maybe the lack of balance everywhere else highlights them or something, but I see far more liberal bashing (their own "famous" quote... "We hate conservatives, but we really fucking hate liberals.")

anyone here still watching Heroes?

VoxOrion wrote:I originally wrote a thing about the "moral majority" aspect, but figured I covered that earlier. Maybe the lack of balance everywhere else highlights them or something, but I see far more liberal bashing (their own "famous" quote... "We hate conservatives, but we really $#@! hate liberals.")

That quote itself was a joke.

Maybe my perception of them is skewed myself. Im mostly a libertarian myself and I can say that I dislike conservatives and liberals equally, depending upon the issue.

The Red Tornado wrote:

VoxOrion wrote:I originally wrote a thing about the "moral majority" aspect, but figured I covered that earlier. Maybe the lack of balance everywhere else highlights them or something, but I see far more liberal bashing (their own "famous" quote... "We hate conservatives, but we really $#@! hate liberals.")

That quote itself was a joke.

Link?