Phight On! wrote:2 years/8.5 million according to ESPN

Edit- And a team option for 2010

At least it is a team option.

Considering salary inflation, this is probably a better contract for the team than David Bell's was, so there's that.

Wasn't Feliz leaning toward staying with the Giants but wanted a third year?

He's better than Helms and makes about the same. Trade Helms fora relieve and this move is fine.

GMAN wrote:He's better than Helms and makes about the same. Trade Helms fora relieve and this move is fine.

Better than Helms how? Defensively? Sure. Offensively? Probably not. Did we spend 4+ mil for a lateral move? Possibly. I am not dead set against this, but the margin gain for 4 mil is probably not that great.

GMAN wrote:He's better than Helms and makes about the same. Trade Helms fora relieve and this move is fine.

if double is about the same, then yes
he's definitely better than helms though

Disco Stu wrote:

Laexile wrote:Of course there are negatives. He could be as bad as the most pessimistic person thinks he will be. He's been .708 to .717 the last three years. If he does that again it's probably a loss of offense. But I'm not asking for improvement. I'm asking for the same performance. Five of his doubles become home runs in CBP. He's only a few months older than Rod Barajas, so an improvement in walks could easily happen.

He could go all Wes Helms on us too. But then so could Geoff Jenkins.

Why do you use Barajas as a baseline? His season was likely an anomoly with respect to walks. Grasping for straws as fine, but I see no reason to say that Feliz will walk more because Barajas did, unless Feliz bats 8th and comes up with men on base a lot.

I'm not using Barajas as a base line. Some people might think that because Feliz is worse than bad at drawing walks, he's horrible, that he can't be helped. Barajas was horrible. I don't think Barajas walk rate had that much to do with batting 8th either. Barajas had 19 walks in 117 batting 8th PAs, one every 6.2. Everyone else had one every 10.3. While Barajas had a higher walk rate with men on, his walk rate with no one on was one every 8.9.

Barajas was helped by 298%. Dobbs was helped by 93%. Werth was helped by 50%. Helms declined 17%. So there was a 75% chance for a new player to increase walks by 50%. Of 14 Phillies who played before, 9 of them increased their walk rate by at least 19%. That would make it 64% likely Feliz would increase too. Of the five guys who declined one is Chris Coste, who is an anomaly, and another is Tad Iguchi, who came over in mid-season and probably didn't work with Thompson that much.

Laexile wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

Laexile wrote:Of course there are negatives. He could be as bad as the most pessimistic person thinks he will be. He's been .708 to .717 the last three years. If he does that again it's probably a loss of offense. But I'm not asking for improvement. I'm asking for the same performance. Five of his doubles become home runs in CBP. He's only a few months older than Rod Barajas, so an improvement in walks could easily happen.

He could go all Wes Helms on us too. But then so could Geoff Jenkins.

Why do you use Barajas as a baseline? His season was likely an anomoly with respect to walks. Grasping for straws as fine, but I see no reason to say that Feliz will walk more because Barajas did, unless Feliz bats 8th and comes up with men on base a lot.

I'm not using Barajas as a base line. Some people might think that because Feliz is worse than bad at drawing walks, he's horrible, that he can't be helped. Barajas was horrible. I don't think Barajas walk rate had that much to do with batting 8th either. Barajas had 19 walks in 117 batting 8th PAs, one every 6.2. Everyone else had one every 10.3. While Barajas had a higher walk rate with men on, his walk rate with no one on was one every 8.9.

Barajas was helped by 298%. Dobbs was helped by 93%. Werth was helped by 50%. Helms declined 17%. So there was a 75% chance for a new player to increase walks by 50%. Of 14 Phillies who played before, 9 of them increased their walk rate by at least 19%. That would make it 64% likely Feliz would increase too. Of the five guys who declined one is Chris Coste, who is an anomaly, and another is Tad Iguchi, who came over in mid-season and probably didn't work with Thompson that much.

You attribute this to what? Learning how to walk in your 30s? There is often a small correlation between lower batting average and higher walks, especially for players barely able to stay in the big leagues. An example of this is Peter Bergeron.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bergepe01.shtml

Players who are often afraid to swing draw more walks than ones who swing fearlessly and can't hit. I have no idea why Barajas started walking more. I think it was a matter of being on a very good offensive team that had a lot of guys on base in front of him and his knowledge that he sucks and afraid to swing the bat.

Thank you Mike Arbuckle, Marty Woelver and company. Your awful drafting and developing of Third Baseman led to this move.

This guy kinda sucks.

I'm unhappy with this, despite having almost reconciled myself to it a few weeks ago. The two years kills it for me.

I guess the upside is that the money is about as little as could have been hoped for, the defense is improved, and it strengthens the bench. If they can get a serviceable minimum-salary pitcher for Helms, that will ease my pain a bit too.

dajafi wrote:I'm unhappy with this, despite having almost reconciled myself to it a few weeks ago. The two years kills it for me.

I guess the upside is that the money is about as little as could have been hoped for, the defense is improved, and it strengthens the bench. If they can get a serviceable minimum-salary pitcher for Helms, that will ease my pain a bit too.

Is there a no-trade clause? If not, I'm not too worried about the second year. At those dollars, Feliz' offense should look good enough playing in CBP as to make him tradeable next offseason if need be.

phatj wrote:

dajafi wrote:I'm unhappy with this, despite having almost reconciled myself to it a few weeks ago. The two years kills it for me.

I guess the upside is that the money is about as little as could have been hoped for, the defense is improved, and it strengthens the bench. If they can get a serviceable minimum-salary pitcher for Helms, that will ease my pain a bit too.

Is there a no-trade clause? If not, I'm not too worried about the second year. At those dollars, Feliz' offense should look good enough playing in CBP as to make him tradeable next offseason if need be.

Or keepable.

I bet if we blindfolded every batter on the Phillies they would still get on base more than Feliz.

I am clinging to a small hope that Manuel and Thompson actually do help with player's patience, but I never really believed that too much anyway.

just ugh. whatever.

Camp Holdout wrote:by the way check out the sponsor box in his b-r page

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/felizpe01.shtml

reading that gives me that queasy sensation I sometimes get just before an old can of worms is opened.


but s'ok, because it appears no one else has checked into baseball evolution's take on the newly-acquired "prodigious out-making machine"*


* (gotta say I'm not entirely sold by b.e.'s analysis, particularly the 'rbi cherry-picking' section... but seems obvious fuel for winter stoves)

I stated that this horror was something I could see the Phillies doing at the beginning of the offseason (and a few posters said the Phils would never go for him.....but it's the Phillies brass we are talking about) and today it became true I'm not happy at all. Would have rather seen what Helms could have done this year as he should rebound from his off year last season. Not too excited over this signing.

drsmooth wrote:

Camp Holdout wrote:by the way check out the sponsor box in his b-r page

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/felizpe01.shtml

reading that gives me that queasy sensation I sometimes get just before an old can of worms is opened.


but s'ok, because it appears no one else has checked into baseball evolution's take on the newly-acquired "prodigious out-making machine"*


* (gotta say I'm not entirely sold by b.e.'s analysis, particularly the 'rbi cherry-picking' section... but seems obvious fuel for winter stoves)

i just think its kinda funny that someone paid to sponsor his page just to tear him a new one.

Not sure if anybody already said this, but Randy Miller was on Glen Macnow(at 5pm) and stated that Feliz is a 'run producer' and that 'we already have guys that score runs' so this should be a good signing.

So everything's OK guys!

pacino wrote:Not sure if anybody already said this, but Randy Miller was on Glen Macnow(at 5pm) and stated that Feliz is a 'run producer' and that 'we already have guys that score runs' so this should be a good signing.

So everything's OK guys!

I wonder how those guys who score runs score them without a producer. Feliz maxed out at 98 RBIs. That ain't 110 and Marcus Hayes is not a happy camper.

Basically two years and limited financial investment. Nobody on the horizon in the minors at 3B and no guarantee of signing a big $$ 3B FA in the next 2 years either. With the rest of this offense what it is this move looks pretty good to me. You can;t have an all-star at every position, plus the Rockies and Red Sox have shown in recent years what a solid to above average defense can mean in terms of wins. There is NO WAY Wes Helms could have been given a significant amount of time in the the field at 3B in 2008 (and I think they realized that in April of 2007).

So the real question is...what rhymes with Feliz??!

Warszawa wrote:Basically two years and limited financial investment. Nobody on the horizon in the minors at 3B and no guarantee of signing a big $$ 3B FA in the next 2 years either. With the rest of this offense what it is this move looks pretty good to me. You can;t have an all-star at every position, plus the Rockies and Red Sox have shown in recent years what a solid to above average defense can mean in terms of wins. There is NO WAY Wes Helms could have been given a significant amount of time in the the field at 3B in 2008 (and I think they realized that in April of 2007).

So the real question is...what rhymes with Feliz??!

Puh-leaze!