Laexile wrote:It's based on set parameters. Those are outlined in the rules. While those parameters were determined in a way you think is arbitrary, much of baseball is arbitrary. A ball hit foul could be a home run if it was a foot to the right. But it isn't because someone arbitrarily drew the angle of the base line. Or decided the bases should be 90 feet apart. Fence distances and foul territory are even more arbitrary. They vary from stadium to stadium with only a minimal guideline applied. Monty can decide he wants to move the fences out tomorrow on a whim. The save stat doesn't change so easily.

Are you REALLY comparing rules of the game with a statistic that is not based on any rules at all? Saves don't govern anything in the game. They are a measure of a specific set of events. If those events occur then they are given a "save". It has nothing to do with the "arbitrary" rules of baseball, which are probably not nearly as arbitrary as you conclude. Foul lines are 90 degrees apart. Bases are 90 feet apart probably for a reason as well (maybe they tested the stolen base success rate and figured it would be around 50% or so).

None of that matters because those are rules that govern the game. Drawing an analogy to saves is completely ridiculous.

Yes, the save is a stupid stat that could only have been created by an agent. Come in and hold a 3-run lead in the ninth inning. That certainly is challenging. But the save justifies the position of closer, which is in itself dumb. But dumb or not, the stats show Lidge wasn't all that good at his job last season. Really no way to slice the numbers to make him a superior closer or reliever. Hopefully he is better next year, but for now, getting him is way overhyped. No strong reason to believe he will be our best reliever next season.

allentown wrote:Yes, the save is a stupid stat that could only have been created by an agent. Come in and hold a 3-run lead in the ninth inning. That certainly is challenging. But the save justifies the position of closer, which is in itself dumb. But dumb or not, the stats show Lidge wasn't all that good at his job last season. Really no way to slice the numbers to make him a superior closer or reliever. Hopefully he is better next year, but for now, getting him is way overhyped. No strong reason to believe he will be our best reliever next season.

I think the stat was actually invented by a reporter.

allentown wrote:Yes, the save is a stupid stat that could only have been created by an agent. Come in and hold a 3-run lead in the ninth inning. That certainly is challenging. But the save justifies the position of closer, which is in itself dumb. But dumb or not, the stats show Lidge wasn't all that good at his job last season. Really no way to slice the numbers to make him a superior closer or reliever. Hopefully he is better next year, but for now, getting him is way overhyped. No strong reason to believe he will be our best reliever next season.

Uh... who has even a chance to be better? We're talking about a guy with the best k rate in major league history.

Bakestar wrote:

Laexile wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:I think he was commenting on how dumb of a stat a save is. At least that's what I assume.

Oh. Yeah. It can be stupid. It really should only apply to the ninth inning or the final inning of extras.

It's always stupid. It's based on a largely arbitrary set of parameters. Most troubling, the "stat" itself has dictated player usage, which is absolutely tragic.

Why is it stupid in this case? Really it's not "saves" he's looking at, but "save percentage". Doesn't it indicate he couldn't get the job done 29% of the time and he was not effective? While "results" stats like wins and saves can be overrated, I don't think you can throw them out altogether and just look at K/BB ratios.

bleh wrote:

Bakestar wrote:

Laexile wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:I think he was commenting on how dumb of a stat a save is. At least that's what I assume.

Oh. Yeah. It can be stupid. It really should only apply to the ninth inning or the final inning of extras.

It's always stupid. It's based on a largely arbitrary set of parameters. Most troubling, the "stat" itself has dictated player usage, which is absolutely tragic.

Why is it stupid in this case? Really it's not "saves" he's looking at, but "save percentage". Doesn't it indicate he couldn't get the job done 29% of the time and he was not effective? While "results" stats like wins and saves can be overrated, I don't think you can throw them out altogether and just look at K/BB ratios.

Well, 4% of that 29% was the 6th-inning scenario I posted. Not exactly "not geting the job done".

bleh wrote:

Bakestar wrote:

Laexile wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:I think he was commenting on how dumb of a stat a save is. At least that's what I assume.

Oh. Yeah. It can be stupid. It really should only apply to the ninth inning or the final inning of extras.

It's always stupid. It's based on a largely arbitrary set of parameters. Most troubling, the "stat" itself has dictated player usage, which is absolutely tragic.

Why is it stupid in this case? Really it's not "saves" he's looking at, but "save percentage". Doesn't it indicate he couldn't get the job done 39% of the time and he was not effective? While "results" stats like wins and saves can be overrated, I don't think you can throw them out altogether and just look at K/BB ratios.

it's stupid because you can come in with a 3 run lead and give up three doubles, and then 3 outs and get a save. but if you come in with a one run lead, and give up 2 doubles, you get a blown save.

you can also get a blown save when it wouldn't even have been possible to get a save. the post shore made showed one such situation. lidge came in to the game with the bases loaded and nobody out in the 6th inning. unless he pitched the rest of the game, he could not get a save there, yet he blew a save.

it makes no sense.

allentown wrote:But dumb or not, the stats show Lidge wasn't all that good at his job last season. Really no way to slice the numbers to make him a superior closer or reliever.

fangraphs.com lists situationally adjusted stats. of 518 relievers, lidge ranked 56th in win probabality added in 2007. in the top 11% of all major league relievers in stat designed to measure whether or not a guy did his job, and the best career k rate of all time. that's enough to meet my definition of superior. by the way, myers was 136th in wpa among relievers.

press conference on CSN today at 4

Will Gillick be there? Or is he busy with his mid-afternoon nap?

ColeforPresident wrote:Will Gillick be there? Or is he busy with his mid-afternoon nap?

That never gets old.

1, would you consider right now "mid-afternoon?"

ColeforPresident wrote:1, would you consider right now "mid-afternoon?"

3 o'clock is, by definition, mid-afternoon. Once 6 hits, it's evening.

1 wrote:

ColeforPresident wrote:1, would you consider right now "mid-afternoon?"

3 o'clock is, by definition, mid-afternoon. Once 6 hits, it's evening.

Now you've opened a can of worms. For me, evening begins at five. I would never say, for instance, "5:30 in the afternoon". But maybe that's just because I'm old and want night to come on faster and save me from the hellish terrors of my meaningless days. But maybe not.

swishnicholson wrote:

1 wrote:

ColeforPresident wrote:1, would you consider right now "mid-afternoon?"

3 o'clock is, by definition, mid-afternoon. Once 6 hits, it's evening.

Now you've opened a can of worms. For me, evening begins at five. I would never say, for instance, "5:30 in the afternoon". But maybe that's just because I'm old and want night to come on faster and save me from the hellish terrors of my meaningless days. But maybe not.

Doing... my best not... to ...push ...buttons...

Press conference at CBP right now on CSN

He looks like Franzke

Gillick nowhere to be seen



Amaro:
Strengthens the back end of the 'pen
Strengthens the front end of the rotation
Bruntlett gives us variety and gritty determination
This is a baseball move; giving up Bourn and Costanzo (as well as Geary) was necessary to get this talent

Lidge on crutches

HE STOLE ROSARIO'S NUMBER

Amaro is leading the press conference...

I really don't know what team could make a deal this big and NOT have their actual GM show up. Then again, Amaro probably is our actual GM.

Amaro can't even put on jerseys

Apparently every camera is miked