Here's the thing. Nunez should never bat, plain and simple. Never. Getting him 3-4 AB in a game where Jamie Moyer starts, his possible defensive contribution does not outweigh the fact that he'd be just as good carrying a balloon animal to the plate instead of his bat. Having him come in for the 8th inning, in a game where we are winning, I'm down with that, but only if the switch is made so he doesn't have a chance to bat, should the game be tied going to the bottom of the 9th.

Iguchi has questionable range, but he has soft hands and an accurate arm. 3B is not a range position, it's a reaction position. Wes Helms has the range of a stone statue, and that hasn't stopped Manuel from giving him starts there. Greg Dobbs accuracy makes Dave Hollins look like a marksman. Right now, we're getting either

a.) shaky defense and a decent bat

or

b.) good defense, with pitcher like offense

Iguchi isn't Scott Rolen at 3B, but at least he isn't Abe Nunez with the bat, and he isn't going to throw many balls into right field ala Dobbs or Helms.

well put
i agree completely

in case it hasn't been mentioned the inquirer mentioned yesterday that Iguchi has been fielding balls at 3B for about 10 days now.

Warszawa wrote:in case it hasn't been mentioned the inquirer mentioned yesterday that Iguchi has been fielding balls at 3B for about 10 days now.

Holy crap. We have a 3rd baseman.

Yay.

Jeff N. wrote:

Warszawa wrote:in case it hasn't been mentioned the inquirer mentioned yesterday that Iguchi has been fielding balls at 3B for about 10 days now.

Holy crap. We have a 3rd baseman.

Yay.

I don't get the excitement of Iguchi as a 3rd baseman. He's a pretty good hitter for a 2nd baseman, but not that much as a third sacker. Dobbs is .855 OPS vs righties and Helms is .797 vs lefties. For the season, Iguchi is .749 OPS, .784 vs lefties and .734 vs righties. In the last three years combined he has a .769 OPS, so it's not like this is out of the norm.

Defensively, Helms and Dobbs are bad fielders, but I doubt Iguchi can become a better third baseman fielding balls for ten days.

Iguchi has an .814 OPS for the Phillies. What he did in Chicago is less relevant than what he's done since coming over in the trade. An .814 OPS at 3B on a day to day basis trumps Dobbs + Helms + Nunez having to mix and match. Dobbs' biggest contribution this season has been as a pinch hitter.

I think you're picking and choosing what you want to use here. You've decided to exclude Iguchi's 2005, 2006, and most of 2007. If we're getting that choosy, we can look at his performance by month. In August, he had a .739 OPS and in September it's .742. You're making your decision by a hot four days at the end of July.

Greg Dobbs' biggest contribution is not as a pinch hitter. While it's true that his third base OPS is only .708, his PH OPS is .797. His OPS playing 1B, LF, and RF is an astronomical 1.048. I think it's just a fluke that he has hit better playing other positions. His August 19 game was one of a few in RF and he hit that day. In fact, Dobbs has played third exclusively this month and has an OPS of 1.264.

While Iguchi can outhit Nunez, that's not relevant to the comparison. Nunez is in there for his glove, so Iguchi wouldn't take away any Nunez starts.

I gotta side with LA on this one Floppers

Laexile wrote:In fact, Dobbs has played third exclusively this month and has an OPS of 1.264.

wow, an OPS of 1.264 in 24 PA. sign me up.

Laexile wrote:

Jeff N. wrote:

Warszawa wrote:in case it hasn't been mentioned the inquirer mentioned yesterday that Iguchi has been fielding balls at 3B for about 10 days now.

Holy crap. We have a 3rd baseman.

Yay.

I don't get the excitement of Iguchi as a 3rd baseman. He's a pretty good hitter for a 2nd baseman, but not that much as a third sacker. Dobbs is .855 OPS vs righties and Helms is .797 vs lefties. For the season, Iguchi is .749 OPS, .784 vs lefties and .734 vs righties. In the last three years combined he has a .769 OPS, so it's not like this is out of the norm.

Defensively, Helms and Dobbs are bad fielders, but I doubt Iguchi can become a better third baseman fielding balls for ten days.

He's not Helms and he's not Abe.

Laexile wrote:Defensively, Helms and Dobbs are bad fielders, but I doubt Iguchi can become a better third baseman fielding balls for ten days.

ABE NUNEZ SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HOLD A BAT, OR A GLOVE, OR AN ATHLETIC SUPPORTER ON A BASEBALL PLAYING FIELD FOR MONEY


and yes, now I do notice you did not mention nuzzins

Woody wrote:I gotta side with LA on this one Floppers

A sad turn of events. You're now dead to me.

FTN wrote:

Woody wrote:I gotta side with LA on this one Floppers

A sad turn of events. You're now dead to me.

FTN wrote:

Woody wrote:I gotta side with LA on this one Floppers

A sad turn of events. You're now dead to me.

would you like to borrow my old avatar?

philliesphhan wrote:

Laexile wrote:In fact, Dobbs has played third exclusively this month and has an OPS of 1.264.

wow, an OPS of 1.264 in 24 PA. sign me up.

I see you're right. Your argument is far more compelling.

ABE NUNEZ SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HOLD A BAT, OR A GLOVE, OR AN ATHLETIC SUPPORTER ON A BASEBALL PLAYING FIELD FOR MONEY

True, but not relevant to Charlie.

Laexile wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:

Laexile wrote:In fact, Dobbs has played third exclusively this month and has an OPS of 1.264.

wow, an OPS of 1.264 in 24 PA. sign me up.

I see you're right. Your argument is far more compelling.

Dobbs, Helms, and Nunez are all part time players. Iguchi has not been. You can break apart their numbers and only show splits to make them look better, but that doesn't change anything.
Helms showed last year in part time play (with some luck) he can be effective. He was greatly exposed as a starter at the beginning of this year.
Greg Dobbs has 548 Career PA, 310 of which were this year.

I like Iguchi at third because he's a decent fielder and a more patient hitter. Dobbs is a bad fielder with the occasional hot streak. Helms is a horrible fielder with one or two decent years offensively, but the rest are pretty bad.

How is Iguchi a decent fielder? He's never played third. Third base is the toughest defensive position outside of catcher. Chase Utley was a good second baseman and played a season at third in AAA and was horrible. There's no reason to think that Iguchi can be any better than Helms or Dobbs at a difficult position he's never played before.

Your argument for Iguchi is his patience? He has a low walk rate which has gotten lower since coming to the Phillies. Patience is not an asset. He's a decent hitter, especially for a second baseman. But he isn't a good hitter and probably not a good fielder at third. They have better already.

Laexile wrote:How is Iguchi a decent fielder? He's never played third. Third base is the toughest defensive position outside of catcher. Chase Utley was a good second baseman and played a season at third in AAA and was horrible. There's no reason to think that Iguchi can be any better than Helms or Dobbs at a difficult position he's never played before.

Your argument for Iguchi is his patience? He has a low walk rate which has gotten lower since coming to the Phillies. Patience is not an asset. He's a decent hitter, especially for a second baseman. But he isn't a good hitter and probably not a good fielder at third. They have better already.

I am acutally more on your side on this, but what evidence do you have to support the bolded part above.

Laexile wrote:How is Iguchi a decent fielder? He's never played third. Third base is the toughest defensive position outside of catcher. Chase Utley was a good second baseman and played a season at third in AAA and was horrible. There's no reason to think that Iguchi can be any better than Helms or Dobbs at a difficult position he's never played before.

Your argument for Iguchi is his patience? He has a low walk rate which has gotten lower since coming to the Phillies. Patience is not an asset. He's a decent hitter, especially for a second baseman. But he isn't a good hitter and probably not a good fielder at third. They have better already.

You're all over the place. He doesn't have patience! Patience isn't good!
PA/BB
9.375 - 07
10.59 - 06
12.36 - 05

Yeah, just look at that walk rate get worse and worse.
Third being the next most difficult position next to catcher is laughable. Utley couldn't play third because his arm wasn't strong enough. Second is harder to play. Wes Helms trying to turn a double play at second would be comedy gold. You've given me extremely small sample sizes of Dobbs/Helms OPS compared to Iguchi's full seasons and somehow this is the basis for why Iguchi would be a bad fielder at third.

Patience isn't an asset? Huh?