I tried to listen to his health care answer and I can't even.

06hawkalum wrote:

JUburton wrote:

jamiethekiller wrote:sounds familiar

yeah, everyone from JUburton to david plouffe thought PA was no longer a swing state after being decidedly blue in 2008 and 2012. turns out it was decidedly obama blue.

It was also decidedly Kerry, Gore, and Clinton blue.

Hell, I am approaching 40 and the last time, prior to 2016, that PA was a "red state" I was a wee baby. Based on my own life experience I certainly considered PA a solid blue state in terms of presidential elections, as I believe the vast majority of the electorate did as well.

Regardless of who wins PA in 2020, I am convinced it will swing back to being reliably blue when Don the Con is no longer on the ballot.

the voters have changed though. your blue collar union dem doesn't exist as much as it did 20-30 years ago. thats countered by suburbs swinging blue. most PA polls have been within the MoE in PA this cycle, though they're improving for Biden at the moment. it is currently 538's tipping point state...it leans blue but can still swing red with the right candidates.

Wolfgang622 wrote:This guy from ABC News says that on balance it was a good event for Trump:

when the news tries way to hard to be unbiased they actually show their bias clearly.

I somehow missed this tweet when it happened but it seems to me that the Biden campaign could make hey out of this tweet from Trump's campaign manager:

https://twitter.com/parscale/status/1258388669544759296

for those saying joe is not hillary....

debates, hillary > joe

this isn't the joe of 5-10 years ago. he would've eaten trump up for lunch back then. i am kinda concerned. i don't think we've seen the trump team really go on the attack yet.

azrider wrote:for those saying joe is not hillary....

debates, hillary > joe

this isn't the joe of 5-10 years ago. he would've eaten trump up for lunch back then. i am kinda concerned. i don't think we've seen the trump team really go on the attack yet.

Agreed. I am pretty worried about how Joe will counter/react to Trump's aggressive tactics and outright lies in a live debate.

Do debates even matter?

Gimpy wrote:Do debates even matter?

as long as the candidate holds their own and doesn't really embarrass themselves, no.

Wolfgang622 wrote:This guy from ABC News says that on balance it was a good event for Trump:

That is a pretty shocking conclusion from Karl. Empathy? Umm, okay. Even if I concede the empathy point to Trump the rest of it was such a shit show that it hardly makes up for the 30-60 seconds of Trump uncomfortably trying to act human. Not to get all deep but I guess on one level it is very sad that our president has lived a life where he has clearly experienced very little true warmth and love from other human beings. All of his relationships, even with his immediate family, have been transactional. He has spent a lifetime trying to figure out what he can get from people and being exposed to people figuring out what to get from him. He is just not a warm guy; it is not in his DNA. I know people like that and it is just not in them to expose themselves to emotion. They are not at all comfortable with "human" moments. Sad and empty as that may be, it does not excuse what he has done to this great country and its citizens the past four years.

I think Trump showed it last night with his interaction with the new citizen from the DR. You just know if the same interaction happened with Biden it would have looked and sounded VERY different. Even the way he addressed all the questioners. Remember it was a "town hall" format. Trump was super glued to his chair the whole night. Even when a couple of questions came from sort of behind him, he just turned his head to respond when the obvious thing to do would have been to get up to face the audience. This was a chance for voters to connect with the president, as much as connection is possible in the C-19 world, and Trump is simply incapable of doing it in a meaningful, not forced way. And if there is anything this country needs right now, it is somebody who understands what the rest of us are going through.

azrider wrote:for those saying joe is not hillary....

debates, hillary > joe

this isn't the joe of 5-10 years ago. he would've eaten trump up for lunch back then. i am kinda concerned. i don't think we've seen the trump team really go on the attack yet.

Idk, feeling good about it:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... st-foolish

Biden's convention speech was on the money, I must say, made me feel much better about him.

azrider wrote:

Gimpy wrote:Do debates even matter?

as long as the candidate holds their own and doesn't really embarrass themselves, no.

If they hold each others' I'm not watching.

I just set my time machine to october 2020 and took it for a spin.

In the debates lat night, trump lied and ranted while joe biden confronted him with facts and data which he ignored. Both sides and supporters from both sides claimed clear victory.

Phred wrote:

azrider wrote:for those saying joe is not hillary....

debates, hillary > joe

this isn't the joe of 5-10 years ago. he would've eaten trump up for lunch back then. i am kinda concerned. i don't think we've seen the trump team really go on the attack yet.

Agreed. I am pretty worried about how Joe will counter/react to Trump's aggressive tactics and outright lies in a live debate.

You guys are getting suckered by a right wing talking point/smear.

Biden is old and he has a stutter. He does not have dementia. Trump clearly has dementia.

If anyone gets embarrassed on the debate stage it will be Trump.

Also, I am not claiming Biden will be a better debater than Hillary. What I am stating is the Biden's debate performance will be better received than Hillary's. Plenty of swing voters don't take kindly to a woman talking down to/patronizing a man, which is precisely what Hillary did during the 2016 debates.

These same types got off on Trump stalking her around the stage, which in their mind made him look like an alpha. He won't be able to do that with Biden because Joe will be ready to throw down with him on live tv.

Bucky wrote:I just set my time machine to october 2020 and took it for a spin.

In the debates lat night, trump lied and ranted while joe biden confronted him with facts and data which he ignored. Both sides and supporters from both sides claimed clear victory.

Sounds about right. These debates constitute 4.5 hours of preaching to the choirs and likely won't move the needle much.

Biden is going to need to have his own "deplorables" or "Comey" moment to stumble down the stretch.

I mean there's a chance they both have dementia at their age, I think something like 13% over the age of 70 have some form of it and they are both getting closer to 80.

I am going to post this without comment because the comments speak for themselves.

https://thenevadaindependent.com/articl ... d-pandemic

I think Hawk is right. I'm not even sure Trump can stalk around that stage anymore.

TenuredVulture wrote:I think Hawk is right. I'm not even sure Trump can stalk around that stage anymore.

Too bad Covid eliminates the possibility of a handshake during the debates. Would love Trump to try his 'alpha' move of grabbing a person's hand and yanking them towards him with Biden.

Wasserman has an interesting insight-- haven't seen an Iowa poll in a long while. With the way Wisconsin and Minnesota have been going you never know. Senate race there could be more in play than we know too.

So today's Gallup poll has Trump at +14 Disapprove while today's Rasmussen has him at +6 Approve.