azrider wrote:shit, i thought this stuff only happened to left-center liberals like myself on BSG.

https://medium.com/the-forgotten-generation/submit-for-ultraliberal-reconditioning-d8b474ff36af

good read and oh so true, well at least the majority.

Monkeyboy wrote:

Bill McNeal wrote:There are so many Trump signs and flags around me it’s wild.

me too. I haven't seen a single Biden sign. Some of the Trump signs are huge. There's one at a tractor dealer that's as big as their business sign.

Wolfgang622 wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:

Bill McNeal wrote:There are so many Trump signs and flags around me it’s wild.

me too. I haven't seen a single Biden sign. Some of the Trump signs are huge. There's one at a tractor dealer that's as big as their business sign.

And what that is about is identification. He speaks their truth. Do NOT underestimate that: Trump matters more to Trumpers than Biden matters to anyone outside his own family. To the rest of us he is just a guy. A nice guy it seems. But a guy.

When I worked in Newark, NJ, there was a big picture in every school of Barack Obama. He represented somebody's truth: and he won. Twice.

Trump isn't just a candidate to his voters. He is their id, their very selves. To insult him, to attack him, to discredit him, is to insult, attack, and discredit them. He is more right than probably he even knows: he could shoot someone live and on camera and it would not make a difference to them. He is their demanding, unappeasable, terrible and terrified inner selves.

Joe Biden isn't that for anybody, and he can't buy it either.

Trump wins.

Wolfgang622 wrote:Trump isn't just a candidate to his voters. He is their id, their very selves. To insult him, to attack him, to discredit him, is to insult, attack, and discredit them. He is more right than probably he even knows: he could shoot someone live and on camera and it would not make a difference to them. He is their demanding, unappeasable, terrible and terrified inner selves.

Even for those of us who are all too wearily familiar with President Donald Trump’s disdain for journalists, his administration’s latest attack on the free press is a bit of a jaw-dropper.

In a heretofore unpublicized memo, the Pentagon delivered an order to shutter the Stars and Stripes, a newspaper that has been a lifeline and a voice for American troops since the Civil War. The memo orders the publisher of the news organization (which now publishes online as well as in print) to present a plan that “dissolves the Stars and Stripes” by Sept. 15 including "specific timeline for vacating government owned/leased space worldwide.”

“The last newspaper publication (in all forms) will be September 30, 2020,” writes Col. Paul Haverstick Jr., the memo’s author.

LastTrain wrote:

Wolfgang622 wrote:Trump isn't just a candidate to his voters. He is their id, their very selves. To insult him, to attack him, to discredit him, is to insult, attack, and discredit them. He is more right than probably he even knows: he could shoot someone live and on camera and it would not make a difference to them. He is their demanding, unappeasable, terrible and terrified inner selves.

I'm a right-leaning person who did not vote for Trump in 2016 because I believe he's a rotten person (didn't vote for Hillary either, so for the first time in 8 or 9 general elections in which I've voted threw away my vote to a 3rd party person I'd never heard of...I guess as a protest vote against the utter rottenness of US politics today). But really, this type of post is just...weird. I have a ton of friends who were and will be Trump voters, and that's such a strange characterization. Truly, most of the "real people" I know did vote and are voting for the next Supreme Court justice and that's the only reason they stomach a guy they otherwise detest. Nobody seems to think a President...including the current megalomaniac...truly possesses enough power for what you suggest to actually define their beliefs.

I see two potential factors at work in your post.

For one, it leads me to think perhaps the opposite of this is true. Maybe anti-Trumpers (or maybe it's just as unfair to extend it beyond you as the author of that post) are all those things you mention but in the reverse. To credit Trump for something he has done is to attack, insult or discredit you. But maybe you're right, because a truly unfortunate characteristic of both sides right now is how much everyone's identity is defined by whom they support politically. Sad, and truly a bit scary for our country's future. That's when violence against the scum on the other side becomes justifiable in all our minds. How surprised will any of us be by massive and horrific looting and rioting on November 4th? I think this is especially true if Trump wins. If Biden wins there might be a little bit of a chance for the right's anger to dissipate because I believe Trump is not likely to concede any time soon and will drag the process through the courts for a couple months. I hate to say that's the best possible outcome, but from that perspective it might be.

Reading the virus thread is profoundly disheartening. So many posts there simply can't only look at or discuss the disease; a huge percentage of the posts take the disease, filter it through a political bias, and then post a weirdly slanted comment showing how truth about the disease can only possibly be truth if it matches a political party's view of the disease.

That's where I think the other factor from your post comes in and is more likely to be reality. The press is a huge negative, and I don't mean that from a "fake news" viewpoint. I'm convinced politics, to the press, is not serious business. It's entertainment and programmed and handled as entertainment. Only the extremes catch our attention and stir our emotions, and then the extremes progressively become normal (such as a belief posited in your post) because that's what we see day after day and are led to believe is normal. I have no doubt the type of Trump voter you describe does exist...I mean I see the crazies right there on my TV screen just as clearly as you do. I just don't think it's a realistic characterization of any typical conservative voter. In central PA I'm constantly around many Trump voters, so either I'm blind to people's political alter-egos or it's not really what you describe.

Granted, I do realize you are actively engaged in politics so perhaps this is what you've witnessed on the front lines. If so, ignore everything else in this post.

TenuredVulture wrote:

LastTrain wrote:

Wolfgang622 wrote:Trump isn't just a candidate to his voters. He is their id, their very selves. To insult him, to attack him, to discredit him, is to insult, attack, and discredit them. He is more right than probably he even knows: he could shoot someone live and on camera and it would not make a difference to them. He is their demanding, unappeasable, terrible and terrified inner selves.

I'm a right-leaning person who did not vote for Trump in 2016 because I believe he's a rotten person (didn't vote for Hillary either, so for the first time in 8 or 9 general elections in which I've voted threw away my vote to a 3rd party person I'd never heard of...I guess as a protest vote against the utter rottenness of US politics today). But really, this type of post is just...weird. I have a ton of friends who were and will be Trump voters, and that's such a strange characterization. Truly, most of the "real people" I know did vote and are voting for the next Supreme Court justice and that's the only reason they stomach a guy they otherwise detest. Nobody seems to think a President...including the current megalomaniac...truly possesses enough power for what you suggest to actually define their beliefs.

I see two potential factors at work in your post.

For one, it leads me to think perhaps the opposite of this is true. Maybe anti-Trumpers (or maybe it's just as unfair to extend it beyond you as the author of that post) are all those things you mention but in the reverse. To credit Trump for something he has done is to attack, insult or discredit you. But maybe you're right, because a truly unfortunate characteristic of both sides right now is how much everyone's identity is defined by whom they support politically. Sad, and truly a bit scary for our country's future. That's when violence against the scum on the other side becomes justifiable in all our minds. How surprised will any of us be by massive and horrific looting and rioting on November 4th? I think this is especially true if Trump wins. If Biden wins there might be a little bit of a chance for the right's anger to dissipate because I believe Trump is not likely to concede any time soon and will drag the process through the courts for a couple months. I hate to say that's the best possible outcome, but from that perspective it might be.

Reading the virus thread is profoundly disheartening. So many posts there simply can't only look at or discuss the disease; a huge percentage of the posts take the disease, filter it through a political bias, and then post a weirdly slanted comment showing how truth about the disease can only possibly be truth if it matches a political party's view of the disease.

That's where I think the other factor from your post comes in and is more likely to be reality. The press is a huge negative, and I don't mean that from a "fake news" viewpoint. I'm convinced politics, to the press, is not serious business. It's entertainment and programmed and handled as entertainment. Only the extremes catch our attention and stir our emotions, and then the extremes progressively become normal (such as a belief posited in your post) because that's what we see day after day and are led to believe is normal. I have no doubt the type of Trump voter you describe does exist...I mean I see the crazies right there on my TV screen just as clearly as you do. I just don't think it's a realistic characterization of any typical conservative voter. In central PA I'm constantly around many Trump voters, so either I'm blind to people's political alter-egos or it's not really what you describe.

Granted, I do realize you are actively engaged in politics so perhaps this is what you've witnessed on the front lines. If so, ignore everything else in this post.

I pretty much agree with your second to last paragraph--and social media makes it worse. It's about entertainment and getting clicks and conflict sells. On top of that, vetting stories for accuracy requires editors, and editors cost money, so there's really little incentive to be careful there.

On the other hand, the politicization of the pandemic is at best driven by an unbelievably incompetent administration. Trump is lazy, and stupid, and rather than just getting out of the way, he seems committed to doing things that make the situation worse in order to achieve short term political gains. On top of that, he's encouraged his followers to actively work against efforts that might mitigate the spread the of the virus. What should really worry people is imagine if something happened that really required significant and serious engagement of the President--what if China were to invade Taiwan? What if North Korea launches artillery at South Korea? I would imagine these events would at best lead to global humiliation for the US, and likely serious long term irreparable damage to the US and its interests. These may not seem likely, but then again who thought a global pandemic would completely upend the world economy and political situation last year? The incredible incompetence of this administration should put fear in the heart of every American, regardless of their ideological predispositions. (To be sure, the media really have failed us here....)

The court thing is just weird. Yeah, I get a lot of people don't like Roe v. Wade, but on balance, we've got "conservative" judges who far from exercising judicial restraint routinely overturn and undermine legislation passed by our Congress and signed by the President. The current conservative justices are extreme in their attacks on worker and consumer rights as well as attacks on basic ideas of democracy.

Wolfgang622 wrote:I have often thought that if the Dems want to win elections, they should just let Roe V. Wade go and de-motivate a huge section of the right's coalition. Abortion is and will be forever legal on the west coast and in New York and New England, to say nothing of Canada and Europe. The entire debate over Roe v. Wade is ridiculous because people believe it is about the law and it is not: it is about access, which ultimately is about price. Rich people will get their abortions, and the right will succeed in what it succeeds at best: screwing poor people royally.

Of course I don't particularly lavish the thought of screwing millions and millions of poor women, but if real honest-to-goodness pro-labor progressive Dems started winning elections because of it, maybe on balance it would be a net positive.