What could the state have done then if a nursing home wasn't capable of caring for them to ensure they didn't out more people at risk?

jamiethekiller wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:and pretty much every Republican governor has shit the bed with Covid response.

I'd probably say the otherwise. 5 of 6 states that ordered NH patients who were positive in the hospital back to NH were run by Democrat governor's. Those 6 states all have over 50% of their total fatalities coming from NH.

Those 6 states account for over 50% of the nationwide fatalities to COVID.

Those states also had a lot less information to act upon and significantly reduced PPE than these republican peers.

Imagine being told months in advance and seeing the devastation THEN turning a blind eye and acting like it’s even, or the same footing.

jamiethekiller wrote:What could the state have done then if a nursing home wasn't capable of caring for them to ensure they didn't out more people at risk?

nursing homes were quite capable; the profit motive made it that they didn't prepare for anything, restricted PPE from staff, and did not have safe staffing levels. most nursing home operators are terrible.

what we need to do is beef up our inspection and actually pass legislation requiring them to get up to muster or lose their license. thing is, the General Assembly is run by Republicans that don't want to do that so the bills that are there to do just that aren't brought up for discussion, let alone a vote.

TenuredVulture wrote:A bunch more secret service agents are tested positive. I wonder if that might put a strain on remaining agents.

This will be the way he gets HIS people around him when the time comes.

Rockinghorse wrote:In the short attention span era, it should be pretty easy to whip up a new Paul Ryan. Moderates and the national media would gobble him up (of course it will be a man). The R party as a whole can breathe a sigh of relief and rally behind his unifying message of tax cuts and business deregulation, and pointing out how Biden's massive spending did not immediately restore the economy.

If dems win in 2020, I think it will be hard to win in 2024. Biden won't probably run and it will be a black female, probably right in the middle of a recovery, who will have to make a case despite a sputtering economy and a Trump base that will be energized to stop her. If we're lucky, Trump will be dead or, better yet, in prison by then.

Dems have to hope they can get things turned around quickly and whoever they choose can make the case we should have our first female and second black president. Every bigot imaginable will be ready to join the fight against her.

pacino wrote:

jamiethekiller wrote:What could the state have done then if a nursing home wasn't capable of caring for them to ensure they didn't out more people at risk?

nursing homes were quite capable; the profit motive made it that they didn't prepare for anything, restricted PPE from staff, and did not have safe staffing levels. most nursing home operators are terrible.

what we need to do is beef up our inspection and actually pass legislation requiring them to get up to muster or lose their license. thing is, the General Assembly is run by Republicans that don't want to do that so the bills that are there to do just that aren't brought up for discussion, let alone a vote.

While I'm not necessarily crazy about the idea of a system based on public njrsing homes, it seems pretty clear the private model we use to provide care for seniors is deeply flawed.

pacino wrote:

jamiethekiller wrote:What could the state have done then if a nursing home wasn't capable of caring for them to ensure they didn't out more people at risk?

nursing homes were quite capable; the profit motive made it that they didn't prepare for anything, restricted PPE from staff, and did not have safe staffing levels. most nursing home operators are terrible.

You said they were capable then listed reasons why they weren't capable. Anyway, I agree everything you said. Elderly population is neglected here and around the world and it's not great!

My assertion was Republican lead states aren't faring nearly as bad as Democratic led states. Across the board no one knew how to stop it from killing so many people, but they were aware that an older population was way more vulnerable. Good policy could have kept those in nursing homes and the like much safer.

https://data.cms.gov/stories/s/COVID-19 ... bkwz-xpvg/

OH was one of the first to have an outbreak in the states yet they kept their NH population fairly safe.

All 6 of those states that didn't give an option to a NH facility to deny a patient are in the top 10 per 1000(NY is much worse than it appears. Only state that doesn't count patients who were in a NH and died in a hospital or elsewhere).

I'm just not sure what TV could be looking at that says that Republican governor's are performing much worse.
Any meaningful metric says otherwise.

Edit: I'd say that they all mostly succeeded in not following CDC and federal best practice guidelines. And that it's more dumb luck that they're not in the trouble they *should* be in(for whatever reasons you want to apply!)

Again PTK, have you swung to the dark side? Is this new outlook you have on COVID some sort of coping mechanism? Seems like you went down some internet rabbit holes recently.

06hawkalum wrote:Again PTK, have you swung to the dark side? Is this new outlook you have on COVID some sort of coping mechanism? Seems like you went down some internet rabbit holes recently.

Wrong.. yet somehow right.

Yes, no, did not give up in the middle to doom scroll to someone saying FO.

TenuredVulture wrote:

Stay_Disappointed wrote:

No one is going to win a U.S. presidential election by 14 points,” Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said of the Times-Siena poll.

Maybe maybe not. I could see it being close but I think there is a possibility of a blowout - that normal Americans finally see that trump is a fraud based on his performance in 2020. Plus maybe all the negatives stories over the past 4 years have a cumulative effect. Trump fatigue?

Anyway av14 point defeat may be the only thing that can push the republics party back towards normalcy

I'm not sure that's even possible at this point. Who could both unite the various factions of the party and reach out to independents? Pretty much every R Senator is tied to Trump, and pretty much every Republican governor has shit the bed with Covid response. Mitt Romney seems pretty lonely these days. Bloomberg? (Kidding.)

Part of it is "who." Part of it is an openness to change the party platform. Part of it is acceptance that the status quo coalition is shrinking and a losing coalition. A blowout loss would help some of these.

06hawkalum wrote:Again PTK, have you swung to the dark side? Is this new outlook you have on COVID some sort of coping mechanism? Seems like you went down some internet rabbit holes recently.

I agree with jtk that state-specific, partisan analysis is not going to show data that is particularly helpful for the liberal cause. Recent data is moving in that direction, of course, but I expect that the death rates in newer outbreaks to still be lower than earlier outbreaks in places like NYC.

Monkeyboy wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:A bunch more secret service agents are tested positive. I wonder if that might put a strain on remaining agents.

This will be the way he gets HIS people around him when the time comes.

Seriously, you guys are insane. I'm posting logical and rational stuff and this shit gets a fucking pass.

TenuredVulture wrote:

pacino wrote:

jamiethekiller wrote:What could the state have done then if a nursing home wasn't capable of caring for them to ensure they didn't out more people at risk?

nursing homes were quite capable; the profit motive made it that they didn't prepare for anything, restricted PPE from staff, and did not have safe staffing levels. most nursing home operators are terrible.

what we need to do is beef up our inspection and actually pass legislation requiring them to get up to muster or lose their license. thing is, the General Assembly is run by Republicans that don't want to do that so the bills that are there to do just that aren't brought up for discussion, let alone a vote.

While I'm not necessarily crazy about the idea of a system based on public njrsing homes, it seems pretty clear the private model we use to provide care for seniors is deeply flawed.

Don't mean to hijack this into a nursing home thread BUT...

Back home in PA the county run home provides the absolute best care. There's some inconveniences but the actual care is exceptional compared to the private options.

Uncle Milty wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

pacino wrote:

jamiethekiller wrote:What could the state have done then if a nursing home wasn't capable of caring for them to ensure they didn't out more people at risk?

nursing homes were quite capable; the profit motive made it that they didn't prepare for anything, restricted PPE from staff, and did not have safe staffing levels. most nursing home operators are terrible.

what we need to do is beef up our inspection and actually pass legislation requiring them to get up to muster or lose their license. thing is, the General Assembly is run by Republicans that don't want to do that so the bills that are there to do just that aren't brought up for discussion, let alone a vote.

While I'm not necessarily crazy about the idea of a system based on public njrsing homes, it seems pretty clear the private model we use to provide care for seniors is deeply flawed.

Don't mean to hijack this into a nursing home thread BUT...

Back home in PA the county run home provides the absolute best care. There's some inconveniences but the actual care is exceptional compared to the private options.

That's good to hear--a public option as it were should be able to work.

Werthless wrote:

06hawkalum wrote:Again PTK, have you swung to the dark side? Is this new outlook you have on COVID some sort of coping mechanism? Seems like you went down some internet rabbit holes recently.

I agree with jtk that state-specific, partisan analysis is not going to show data that is particularly helpful for the liberal cause. Recent data is moving in that direction, of course, but I expect that the death rates in newer outbreaks to still be lower than earlier outbreaks in places like NYC.

Agree if deaths are the comparison. It should also be expected by timing of outbreak in each area which is the damning part. A large percentage of current infections and deaths were preventable. That can't be easily argued for NYC and other early outbreaks.

jamiethekiller wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:A bunch more secret service agents are tested positive. I wonder if that might put a strain on remaining agents.

This will be the way he gets HIS people around him when the time comes.

Seriously, you guys are insane. I'm posting logical and rational stuff and this shit gets a fucking pass.

Sorry, I didn't stop by OAN today

But really, stuff like this I post is half in jest and half frustration over our nazi and chief. You are taking me way too seriously.

I actually agree with you that dem states look worse than GOp states, but I think it's because of the order of the infection (dem states were hit first) and demographics/geographic distribution. We are now seeing GOP states get hammered while dem states have learned and adjusted and have already been hit. The death rate is down because of a myriad of reasons that I and others have discussed. None of those reasons have to do with GOP governors being more competent than dem governors. GOP led states are lucky they got hit after some of these changes have occurred.

Finally, your comment was not really cool. I haven't been on you and you are taking your frustration out on me. I would say fuck off, but that's not my style.

jamiethekiller wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:A bunch more secret service agents are tested positive. I wonder if that might put a strain on remaining agents.

This will be the way he gets HIS people around him when the time comes.

Seriously, you guys are insane. I'm posting logical and rational stuff and this shit gets a fucking pass.

jtk DESTROYS bsg with FACTS and LOGIC

Gearing up for my new show with the young turks

I don't know how many of you saw recent polling that not surprisingly shows many Americans are not exactly thrilled with the state of the union today. Given that, it's really hard to imagine an incumbent doing well in an election.

That is, I think pollsters are reluctant to publish polls that really show the extent of Biden's lead, so their massaging numbers by weighting in ways that have samples of 60% non-college educated whites and such.