drsmooth wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:Guys, I have some terrible news to report: the ultimate likelihood of Trump being constrained, impeached, removed from office, etc. is not greatly affected by the level of FOCUS and opposition demonstrated in the politics thread at BackSheGoes.com

the journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single post - thank heaven we're not all as complacent as you

We are an echo chamber though, for the most part. We have driven/drown out anyone who voted third party or Trump. The efficacy of posting here to change hearts and minds is minimum.

I'm guessing there are some masochistic "read but not post" visitors to this thread.

there's also the possibility that some take facts, links, well-thought out opinions read here, etc., and share them with the outside world. I know I do.

this made me wade into the PP.com politics thread. wish some of those people had come over here

probably a contrarian view, but I feel like pretending that persuasion will change minds of people who made the appalling mistake of confusing drumpf's ravings with an expression of their own frustration with actual problems America faces, and so actively VOTED FOR HIM TO BE POTUS rather than just declaring they'd vote for mickey mouse vs that horrible awful woman person, is a formula for inaction.

These people need to continue to be reminded of their blunder, that it's their doing, and that they can remedy it - by actively renouncing this fuckmonkey and taking what little action they can to help get rid of him.

drumpf presents a real danger to everyone here, everyone and their families & friends. He's not funny. He's ruinous. He doesn't need to touch off an H-bomb to corrode America (& yeah, whataboutists, we'll leave the debate about whether he's more symptom than cause for later, if then). He's spent far too much time doing it already. It needs to be done with.

Practicing civil discourse is not a bad thing to practice.

Bucky wrote:there's also the possibility that some take facts, links, well-thought out opinions read here, etc., and share them with the outside world. I know I do.

None of that in this thread!

drsmooth wrote:probably a contrarian view, but I feel like pretending that persuasion will change minds of people who made the appalling mistake of confusing drumpf's ravings with an expression of their own frustration with actual problems America faces, and so actively VOTED FOR HIM TO BE POTUS rather than just declaring they'd vote for mickey mouse vs that horrible awful woman person, is a formula for inaction.

These people need to continue to be reminded of their blunder, that it's their doing, and that they can remedy it - by actively renouncing this fuckmonkey and taking what little action they can to help get rid of him.

drumpf presents a real danger to everyone here, everyone and their families & friends. He's not funny. He's ruinous. He doesn't need to touch off an H-bomb to corrode America (& yeah, whataboutists, we'll leave the debate about whether he's more symptom than cause for later, if then). He's spent far too much time doing it already. It needs to be done with.

You're right, in a way. You probably don't have the skills to persuade anyone to change their minds. The problem for the rest of us in the real world who have an ability to display empathy, engage with opposing arguments, and persuade open-minded people, is that we feel a moral obligation to act in a way that produces change. I'm not just talking about posting on an internet forum, although I find that my discourse online is correlated in tone with my discourse in person. Demonizing Trump, or making fun of his hair, or poking fun at Steve Bannon's skin complexion, is a good way to get political opponents to defend them, empathize with their shortcomings, and identify with them.

People don't like to be told that they're wrong, and doing that is a terrible way to persuade people. I guess it could work sometimes, but various psych studies have shown that people are not persuaded by evidence and facts that contradict their worldview. Our minds reflexively reject facts that contradict what we believe to be true, which is why facts are only marginally useful to crafting a winning argument about policy or strategy. People don't usually argue facts, and having the correct facts doesn't mean you win the argument. The facts have to be presented as somehow consistent with an aspect of a person's position, or aligned with an argument they've used in the past, and they have to have the time and room to re-evaluate their new position.

The global warming "debate" is a great example of a policy question that cannot be refuted by facts, but by reframing the debate in a way that allows people to consider why they believe what they believe.

This reminds me of Aesop’s fable about the wind and the sun.

Corey Lewandowski: still insane

Interesting video on memes, politicians, and seeing ourselves in them

Werthless wrote:People don't like to be told that they're wrong, and doing that is a terrible way to persuade people.

Probably in the course of composing your wholly unpersuasive ramble, you missed the part where I said I'm not at all interested in persuading anyone foolish enough to have imagined drumpf was an effective vessel for conveying their own inchoate, confused frustrations & shortcomings (and if I DID say that, it's not what I meant ). "We need to persuade them of their error" is the kind of tepid, conventional "strategy" that failed continually during the many months leading up to this fecal muppet's ascent to the god-damned presidency of the united states. So how about let's not primly pretend that that route is something everyone somehow overlooked.

If I meant to persuade them, that's what I would do. That's what I would encourage. Rather, I mean to cow them, browbeat them, shame them, & ridicule them. Some, to escape that derision, may change their irresolute minds and turn, finally, on someone who clearly has no more capacity to reason than they do. It won't be necessary to turn that many; some have already, dimly to be sure, grasped the magnitude of their screwup. The white house resident's residency is a titanic process error, an electoral hiccup incited by the gullibility of juuuuust enough sullen drumphian "loyalists". drumpf is the worst president, and also possibly the most tenuous one. Why not employ tactics that reflect that fact.

Meet Trump's newest nominee for ambassador on women's issues:

The position is tasked with overseeing State Department programs to end gender-based violence and empower women and girls around the world. So, naturally, President Donald Trump is reportedly considering Penny Young Nance, a far-right Christian activist who opposed reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act; recently cheered on an attempt to block a pregnant teen immigrant from an abortion; and has called on Hollywood to write more scripts featuring strong male leads.

Nance is the CEO and president of Concerned Women for America. The group’s agenda, according to its website, includes “protecting and supporting the Biblical design of marriage,” “protecting the sanctity of human life,” “ending sexual exploitation by fighting all forms of pornography, obscenity, prostitution, and sex trafficking,” and “defending religious liberty.”

Speaking on Fox & Friends, Nance put it this way: “We’re the women’s group who love men.”

At the CWA, Nance has called to defund Planned Parenthood and promoted the false idea that abortion is linked with breast cancer. Her organization argued that transgender kids shouldn’t have the right to use school bathrooms matching their gender identity, and it opposed a federal bill that would ban workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

I get it if you are Christian and have strong beliefs (my wife is and does) but this lady is disingenuous and crazy. That means she's definitely a perfect Trump pick.

She sounds like an easy "no thank you" from even the Republicans on the committee.

Garrison Keillor: “People who voted for him are humiliated. So his ratings have tanked. The same people who admire him tend to drive Dodge Darts and wear sweatshirts from schools they didn't attend. Nobody stays in his hotels except foreign CEOs and their tootsies. He is weak. Weak on #s, weak on 1st Amendment, worst president in history. Failed @ real estate and now @ politics. His record = BAD. First president in my lifetime who DOES NOT KNOW the words to "The Star-Spangled Banner." The lips are not even moving.”

The Keillor thing is cute, and much longer, but I took it as infotainment.

Maybe the bigger issue is to stop thinking posting here makes a difference and actually make calls to senators and people in Congress about issues you care about. Talking to a state senators aide for 5 minutes about an issue, then having them email you the proof they just co-sponsored the related bill, is much more satisfying than posting some tough guy thing here like it matters

The Dude wrote:Maybe the bigger issue is to stop thinking posting here makes a difference and actually make calls to senators and people in Congress about issues you care about. Talking to a state senators aide for 5 minutes about an issue, then having them email you the proof they just co-sponsored the related bill, is much more satisfying than posting some tough guy thing here like it matters

I hear you. But what if everyone stays really focused? Like using only the best insults to shame and browbeat the Trump voters who regularly post in this thread. Won't those zero people be cowed enough not to vote for Trump next time?

If you don't think this thread is 75% catharsis and 25% information then i don't know what to tell you.

I learn a lot from this thread.