mcare89 wrote:

FTN wrote:Ok, I'll call it.

Lee brings back Morrow, Aumont and Adam Moore
Phillies send Taylor, Aumont, D'Arnaud and maybe one lesser prospect like Pettibone to Toronto
We get Halladay, Morrow and cash.

Halladay
Hamels
Blanton
Happ
Moyer

Morrow is used strictly as a starter in AAA, and he eventually replaces Moyer in the rotation. He's our #3 starter in 2011.

Lee, Taylor, and D'Arnaud for Halladay and Morrow? I absolutely love that deal.

The only way I'm "in love" with giving up Taylor is if we get a good prospect for 3B from Seattle. Taylor fills an immediate need on this team: the need to get rid of Victorino before he gets more expensive than he'll already be.

And again, any deal where we trade lee AND one of the big 4 (Happ, Taylor, Drabek, Brown) is like admitting JP Riccardi was right in July as far as I'm concerned. But, IF we must part with one, it had BETTER be because we are getting a stud prospect in return, and he had better be able to play third.

Otherwise, Toronto can take a long walk off a short pier.

Toronto: HAS to make a deal
Philadelphia: DOESN'T HAVE to make a deal
Seattle: Whatever

So if Toronto comes out of this with anything more that a couple of decent prospects, I'm gonna be chapped.

S2D wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:
They're not better next year.

i'm had been inclined to agree with you in not liking the deal, but i don't agree with this statement, especially not in the latest version of the deal.
halladay > lee. not much, but better.
certainty about halladay/lee in 2011 better than uncertainty. how much better depends on one's take on the likelihood of signing halladay as a fa.
getting cash back means maybe money enough to keep pedro.

we could easily get back as much or more prospect value as we give up.
taylor had some injury issues this winter. we have better catching prospects than d'arnaud. we desperately need ss propects with a chance of making it in the show. morrow could be very useful in the pen, or rotation.

no budget for pedro, brown and/or drabek going instead of taylor, and crappy prospects in return could still send this deal south.

20 bucks Rube gets Cliff back at the trade deadline!

i think gillies would make a lot of sense. a guy not as advanced as taylor, but someone who would be ready by the time two of werth/vic/raul aren't here. also starting to become the type of hitter you want batting leadoff.

Stark says 3/60 with vesting options

ESPN's Jayson Stark heard this deal is close but not done. He says Halladay's extension would be just three years and $60MM (starting in 2011), with possible vesting options for another year or two. Aside from Aumont, Stark says the Jays would get Phils catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud. The Blue Jays have been asking for Phils outfield prospect Domonic Brown but have been offered Taylor. The Mariners would also give an additional prospect.

Bakestar wrote:But we don't know "what price is being paid" yet. Jesus Christ. Wait until we know names, FOR REAL, and then bitch away.

So we're not allowed to give opinions on the names being thrown out by Stark, etc? I thought this was a message board. My mistake.

Anyone know anything about Poythress? He would be ideal to replace Howard in 2 years.

FTN wrote:Ok, I'll call it.

Lee brings back Morrow, Aumont and Adam Moore
Phillies send Taylor, Aumont, D'Arnaud and maybe one lesser prospect like Pettibone to Toronto
We get Halladay, Morrow and cash.

Halladay
Hamels
Blanton
Happ
Moyer

Morrow is used strictly as a starter in AAA, and he eventually replaces Moyer in the rotation. He's our #3 starter in 2011.

Why is Jack Z giving Aumont, Morrow and a 3rd prospect for 1 year of Lee?

And why do you like Morrow if you hate Scherzer? They are pretty similar with the big fastballs, shoulder issues, questions about starter/reliever....I would say Morrow doesn't even have one solid second pitch like Scherzer does

http://www.prospecttube.com/video/juan-ramirez-2

power arm. Id rank him one tier under Drabek

Wizlah wrote:

lowcountry wrote:It's time Ruben busted out the smugness and told Toronto that if they want 18 prospects that he'll just give them Lee and they can handle the prospecting themselves.

I'm prepared to hate this, and I didn't think it was possible to hate a deal that landed Halladay.

If the deal approximates jflnyc's latest scratch pad, I'm really ok with this. We keep a very good pitcher and cole hamels, we keep our two top prospects, and we may get back two more very good ones. It's doesn't give us the absolutely best shot for 2010, but it's still a very good one, and we've lost none of our farm's depth, and may fill prospect holes to boot (new closer for example). makes our chances of lasting beyond 2010 much better. I would call such a deal shrewd.

Mind you, the deal where everyone goes to toronto and we get halladay, and then he breaks down and dies and cole dies and everyone else leaves (or dies) and monkeyboy is our number one pitcher ... that one I wouldn't like so much.

Really. Look at the net, net again for the Phils:

Halladay + TOR Reliever + Morrow + Moore + Cash

Keep Blanton, Happ, Drabek & Brown.

2010 Rotation:

Halladay
Hamels
Blanton
Happ
Moyer/Kendrick

2011 Rotation:

Halladay
Hamels
Happ
Morrow
Drabek

Yes, we lose Lee for 2010, but Halladay is at least as good. And if we get Morrow while keeping Drabek & Brown, the 2011 -- which could otherwise be decimated by losing Lee & Blanton -- has a chance to be sick. Plus, Brown is ready to step in for Ibanez in 2012.

If that's the price to avoid having a 2011 rotation with only Hamels and Happ as sure things, I'm all in.

SI_JonHeyman

hearing aumont is likely in #mariners pending deal for cliff lee. perhaps michael saunders, too. morrow may stay.

We get Saunders instead of Morrow?

Wizlah wrote:

lowcountry wrote:It's time Ruben busted out the smugness and told Toronto that if they want 18 prospects that he'll just give them Lee and they can handle the prospecting themselves.

I'm prepared to hate this, and I didn't think it was possible to hate a deal that landed Halladay.

If the deal approximates jflnyc's latest scratch pad, I'm really ok with this. We keep a very good pitcher and cole hamels, we keep our two top prospects, and we may get back two more very good ones. It's doesn't give us the absolutely best shot for 2010, but it's still a very good one, and we've lost none of our farm's depth, and may fill prospect holes to boot (new closer for example). makes our chances of lasting beyond 2010 much better. I would call such a deal shrewd.

Mind you, the deal where everyone goes to toronto and we get halladay, and then he breaks down and dies and cole dies and everyone else leaves (or dies) and monkeyboy is our number one pitcher ... that one I wouldn't like so much.

You underestimate my changeup.

joe table wrote:

FTN wrote:Ok, I'll call it.

Lee brings back Morrow, Aumont and Adam Moore
Phillies send Taylor, Aumont, D'Arnaud and maybe one lesser prospect like Pettibone to Toronto
We get Halladay, Morrow and cash.

Halladay
Hamels
Blanton
Happ
Moyer

Morrow is used strictly as a starter in AAA, and he eventually replaces Moyer in the rotation. He's our #3 starter in 2011.

Why is Jack Z giving Aumont, Morrow and a 3rd prospect for 1 year of Lee?

And why do you like Morrow if you hate Scherzer?

Because they're soured on Morrow, and Aumont was moved to the bullpen, so they obviously dont view him as a starter.

Morrow doesn't have an awful delivery, he just has diabetes. I like him much more than Scherzer. Stronger arm, better delivery, just needs to harness his stuff. I trust Dubee.

I just can't see us getting anything significant prospects back other than Halladay....just hope we hang on to Brown/Drabek

I do expect them to get one of TOR's bullpen guys though in a deal, they definitely have several expendable ones and Amaro has left his options wide open with the pen

mcare89 wrote:SI_JonHeyman

hearing aumont is likely in #mariners pending deal for cliff lee. perhaps michael saunders, too. morrow may stay.

We get Saunders instead of Morrow?

If Saunders is Canadian born he's going to Toronto.

phorever wrote: how much better depends on one's take on the likelihood of signing halladay as a fa.

this is where I like rube's thinking. He's using the situation to guarantee halladay signing as an FA, and presumably, hammering out a good deal which suits the phils cash flow best. You don't get to do that in an FA situation.

folk running round saying halladay loves us so much, of course we'd sign him as an FA forget that the yankees were better than us this year, and if he wants to sign for a winner, they're a) better than us and b) have more money. So it would be a better fit for his goals then the nicey nice phils that he loves so much he sends them his yankees world series rings in baskets of cuddly fucking kittens all wrapped up in fucking yankee bowties.

ReadingPhilly wrote:i think gillies would make a lot of sense. a guy not as advanced as taylor, but someone who would be ready by the time two of werth/vic/raul aren't here. also starting to become the type of hitter you want batting leadoff.

I'm thinking you're onto something:

My Scratch Pad V8:

To SEA: Lee

To TOR: Aumont, Taylor, D'Arnaud, Pettibone

To PHI: Halladay + TOR Reliever + Morrow + Gillies + Cash

From Phillies perspective: Lee, Taylor, D'Arnaud, Pettibone

for

Halladay + TOR Reliever + Morrow + Gillies + Cash

Keep Blanton, Happ, Drabek & Brown.

2010 Rotation:

Halladay
Hamels
Blanton
Happ
Moyer/Kendrick

2011 Rotation:

Halladay
Hamels
Happ
Morrow
Drabek

Do we really value keeping Happ?

Saunders had a hell of a year in AAA last season, .310/.378/.544 at age 22. 6'4, 210, lefty hitter