JFLNYC wrote:

joe table wrote:Saunders had a hell of a year in AAA last season, .310/.378/.544 at age 22. 6'4, 210, lefty hitter

Don't see any way M's let him go.

saunders makes sense if taylor goes to seattle, saunders to toronto, so we can keep brown and drabek and happ.

I can't help but feel the Phils are getting ripped off here. Giving away Lee on a cheap contract + his 2 draft picks + Michael Taylor + D'arnaud for 1 year of Halladay (on a not so cheap 2010 contract)? Why not just risk waiting til next year and sign Halladay and take the 2 draft picks for Lee?

PSUPhilliesPhan wrote:

Squire wrote:I'm inclined to think its like this:

To Seattle: LHP Cliff Lee (PHI)

To Toronto: RHP Phillipe Aumont (SEA), OF Michael Taylor (PHI), C Travis d'Arnaud (PHI)

To Philadelphia: RHP Roy Halladay, RHP Juan Carlos Ramirez, OF Tyson Gillies, Cash

SQUIRE

Sounding like this is going to be close to what it is from Stark. Just don't think that is enough for Toronto.

What other choice do they have? Roy's running this show

HillMD wrote:

joe table wrote:Taylor, Aumont, D'Arnaud seems fair for Roy, given that he has tied TOR's hands completely

But that raises the question of why we wouldn't just give them an equivalent of Aumont and take Halladay straight up.

money

Squire wrote:I'm inclined to think its like this:

To Seattle: LHP Cliff Lee (PHI)

To Toronto: RHP Phillipe Aumont (SEA), OF Michael Taylor (PHI), C Travis d'Arnaud (PHI)

To Philadelphia: RHP Roy Halladay, RHP Juan Carlos Ramirez, OF Tyson Gillies, Cash

SQUIRE

I'd be pleasantly surprised if the Phils got both M's prospects.

Guarantee Anthony Hewitt is in this deal.

The ultimate middle finger from Amaro to you know who.

FTN wrote:

HillMD wrote:

joe table wrote:Taylor, Aumont, D'Arnaud seems fair for Roy, given that he has tied TOR's hands completely

But that raises the question of why we wouldn't just give them an equivalent of Aumont and take Halladay straight up.

money

Plus do we really have an arm like him? He seems more valuable/appealing than the Mays and Cosarts, but also on Drabek's level either. Talented enough that TOR can talk themselves into him though to go along with Taylor

Mountainphan wrote:

Squire wrote:I'm inclined to think its like this:

To Seattle: LHP Cliff Lee (PHI)

To Toronto: RHP Phillipe Aumont (SEA), OF Michael Taylor (PHI), C Travis d'Arnaud (PHI)

To Philadelphia: RHP Roy Halladay, RHP Juan Carlos Ramirez, OF Tyson Gillies, Cash

SQUIRE

I'd be pleasantly surprised if the Phils got both M's prospects.

This. If we got one of them and the Ms kept the other guy, I could still live with it, fairly happily in fact.

bleh wrote:1 year of Halladay (on a not so cheap 2010 contract)

4 years, possibly 6

going to work out for an hour or two. expecting to come back to "halladay is a phillies part 3".

I really dont want Gilles. Hes not that good a prospect. Probably wouldnt crack our Top 15

BigEd76 wrote:

bleh wrote:1 year of Halladay (on a not so cheap 2010 contract)

4 years, possibly 6

That has nothing to do with the trade though, it's between the Phils and Halladay.

dajafi wrote:

Mountainphan wrote:

Squire wrote:I'm inclined to think its like this:

To Seattle: LHP Cliff Lee (PHI)

To Toronto: RHP Phillipe Aumont (SEA), OF Michael Taylor (PHI), C Travis d'Arnaud (PHI)

To Philadelphia: RHP Roy Halladay, RHP Juan Carlos Ramirez, OF Tyson Gillies, Cash

SQUIRE

I'd be pleasantly surprised if the Phils got both M's prospects.

This. If we got one of them and the Ms kept the other guy, I could still live with it, fairly happily in fact.

happy to be told I'm wrong, but someone smart like squire or FTN said that the mariners have a pretty deep farm system, no? In which case, getting three prospects from them (of whom we keep 2) for a cheap year of lee (plus his two draft picks) seems plausible too me. they've been presented with an opportunity, but neither rube nor them HAVE to do the deal, so I don't think they'd try and screw us if they've got the minor league depth.

FTN wrote:I really dont want Gilles. Hes not that good a prospect. Probably wouldnt crack our Top 15

I hear you, but I'd probably do it if it meant getting Morrow rather than Ramirez who I think is just too far away with too much work to be done. Ideally it's Morrow and Moore, but I'd sacrifice Moore to get Morrow. We've got Valle, right?

bleh wrote:

BigEd76 wrote:

bleh wrote:1 year of Halladay (on a not so cheap 2010 contract)

4 years, possibly 6

That has nothing to do with the trade though, it's between the Phils and Halladay.

you don't get the opportunity to negotiate one on one with halladay with no other suitors bidding up the price unless you make it a condition of the trade. so it's everything to do with the trade.

I don't think this deal should be a reason for Phillies fans to be real happy in terms of winning of winning a World Series. Cliff Lee was as dominating as a pitcher can get in WS and the Phillies still couldn't beat the Yankees.

The best scenario was for the Phillies to get Halladay in addition to Lee and Hamels. As far as winning the World Series in 2010 the Phillies are no better off than they were last season based on Lee's 2009 post season performance (although they are in a much better position for the next 3 years).

We have to be getting Downs or Frasor (both walk years) in this deal, IMO

Wizlah wrote:

bleh wrote:

BigEd76 wrote:

bleh wrote:1 year of Halladay (on a not so cheap 2010 contract)

4 years, possibly 6

That has nothing to do with the trade though, it's between the Phils and Halladay.

you don't get the opportunity to negotiate one on one with halladay with no other suitors bidding up the price unless you make it a condition of the trade. so it's everything to do with the trade.

ok so what do we get for giving up the right to do that with Lee?

I know it's a dead horse, but I just don't see why the Phils should have to give up Lee *and* good prospects for a guy that's leaving Toronto at the end of the year and has told them to trade him by spring training or suck it.

Wizlah wrote:

bleh wrote:

BigEd76 wrote:

bleh wrote:1 year of Halladay (on a not so cheap 2010 contract)

4 years, possibly 6

That has nothing to do with the trade though, it's between the Phils and Halladay.

you don't get the opportunity to negotiate one on one with halladay with no other suitors bidding up the price unless you make it a condition of the trade. so it's everything to do with the trade.

Exactly. I don't think we can forget that, without this trade, there's almost no chance we'd have either Lee or Halladay in 2011. So, if the price of getting Halladay for 2011 and beyond is making a lateral move (although I think it's better than lateral) with Lee for 2010, plus shuffling around a bunch of prospects with the Jays and M's, I do that every time.