Phillies realistically in it for Halladay?

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 14:43:54

jerseyhoya wrote:A random poster on a rotoworld message board, if my google is correct

If not, I'm sure a doctor can fix that

Gotta luv that "Mets have more than enough talent" opine...

by **FTN** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 14:48:59

dajafi wrote:
etched Chaos wrote:
VFB wrote:3-way trade with howard going to boston and us keeping taylor and drabek and moving ibanez to 1B could work. think outside the box, rube!

I'd be very angry if we lost RyHo in any trade not for Pujols.

It doesn't make sense to trade a superstar slugger whom you control for two years for a superstar pitcher you have for one year.

I used to be way up front on the trade Howard bandwagon, if not driving. I'm totally off now. Keep the guy and enjoy him for the next two years, then reassess and be prepared to let him walk.

But let me propose this. What if the deal was Kotchman, 2 high quality prospects (that would be flipped to Toronto), and say Daniel Bard, a guy who throws 99 out of the pen. Kotchman obviously is 10 levels under Howard, but is a competent defender. Say that you get Halladay for an AAV of $17M a year over the next 4 (plus 2010). So Halladay would be making less than Howard, would be tied up longer, we'd have a 1B already and wouldn't have to sign anyone else, and we'd also have a guy who could replace Lidge in 2 years.

Sure, I love Howard, and I might not take that unless Boston sweetened the deal, but Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball not named Lincecum or Felix Hernandez or Zach Greinke. And I don't think we (or anyone) has what it takes to land one of those 3.

by **nycphils** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 14:58:01

dajafi wrote:
etched Chaos wrote:
VFB wrote:3-way trade with howard going to boston and us keeping taylor and drabek and moving ibanez to 1B could work. think outside the box, rube!

I'd be very angry if we lost RyHo in any trade not for Pujols.

It doesn't make sense to trade a superstar slugger whom you control for two years for a superstar pitcher you have for one year.

I used to be way up front on the trade Howard bandwagon, if not driving. I'm totally off now. Keep the guy and enjoy him for the next two years, then reassess and be prepared to let him walk.

The two key items for continued Phillies success after 2010/11 are:

1. How to replace Howard's mega power production against RHP; and
2. How to replace Rollins (I fear he is ready to significantly decline offensively) with a SS that isn't a complete black hole offensively.

OF will be in good shape among Vic/Werth/Brown/Taylor/Francisco, pitching should be in solid shape at least with Hamels/Drabeck/Happ/Kendrick/Bastardo/May, 3B already is a black hole so nowhere to go but up, 2B set with Utley through '13 and C set with Ruiz/D'Arnaud.

I'm fine keeping Howard until FA to get his peak years, and replacing him at that point should be possible - A. Gonzalez will be a FA at that point as well, and finding significant power with a $20 million per year nut shouldn't be impossible. It really comes down to finding a good replacement for Rollins by the end of '11 with only Rollins' $8/9 million salary. Very tough to do, and absolutely no hope of that on the farm.

Apologies for the thread drift - bottom line is don't spend the prospects on Halladay, spend them on Hanley Ramirez!

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:10:36

On the bright side, replacing Rollins' production from last year shouldn't be too hard. If he declines further next year it'll be even easier!

by **HillMD** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:23:03

etched Chaos wrote:
VFB wrote:3-way trade with howard going to boston and us keeping taylor and drabek and moving ibanez to 1B could work. think outside the box, rube!

I'd be very angry if we lost RyHo in any trade not for Pujols.

This made me think about something interesting. Pujols and Howard are free agents after 2011. Lidge and Ibanez are gone after that season as well. That's 53 million dollars off the books for those 3 players. If Pujols makes it to free agency, he clearly wants to play for a contender. If the Phillies play their cards right, they can afford to sign him.

by **thephan** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:32:00

HillMD wrote:
etched Chaos wrote:
VFB wrote:If Pujols makes it to free agency, he clearly wants to play for a contender. If the Phillies play their cards right, they can afford to sign him.

Terrible pun.

by **FTN** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:35:26

Pujols might hit 80 in CBP

by **HillMD** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:35:43

thephan wrote:
HillMD wrote:
etched Chaos wrote:
VFB wrote:If Pujols makes it to free agency, he clearly wants to play for a contender. If the Phillies play their cards right, they can afford to sign him.

Terrible pun.

I don't know what you did there.

by **JFLNYC** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:44:44

Pujols breakout thread(s) to rival Halladay's.

by **mcare89** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:52:00

JFLNYC wrote:Pujols breakout thread(s) to rival Halladay's.

Pujols XX: Where It All Begins Again!

by **JFLNYC** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 00:15:33

Considering Halladay is only under contract through 2010, one way for the Jays to potentially get more in a trade would be to give another team a window in which to discuss a contract extension with the pitcher. Anthopoulos declined comment on such a scenario, but MLB.com has learned that the Jays will consider granting such a window in trade talks if it means the return is significantly greater.

Jordan Bastian

by **Philly the Kid** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 13:56:29

JFLNYC wrote:
Considering Halladay is only under contract through 2010, one way for the Jays to potentially get more in a trade would be to give another team a window in which to discuss a contract extension with the pitcher. Anthopoulos declined comment on such a scenario, but MLB.com has learned that the Jays will consider granting such a window in trade talks if it means the return is significantly greater.

Jordan Bastian

So are we more in to going after him now, if we can sign him to a 3-4 year deal, than just a 1 year rental? If he was 2 years younger I wouldn't even blink and selling the farm for a 4 year deal and a year of Doc, Lee, Hamels, Pedro, Blanton

But he will be what, 32-33 starting next season -- just scared to be tied up with so much money in a guy 32-37?? And Doc should command about as much as any pitcher could in FA, no?

by **JFLNYC** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 14:12:27

All in a (Halla) day's work for Rube.

by **JFLNYC** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 14:16:18

With all the new variables, here are the possibilities for Halladay ...
1. Yankees: Even with Andy Pettitte more likely than not to return, pitching will be their focus. Halladay would make them a prohibitive favorite to repeat.
1A. Red Sox: One agent said the Red Sox seem even more motivated than ever. And they probably made the best offer for Halladay last summer (Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Michael Bowden, Nick Hagadone and a positional prospect), though they won't repeat that bid now, even with the Yankees competing for Halladay. (Technically they can't, as Masterson and Hagadone went to Cleveland for Victor Martinez.)
2. Blue Jays: Team president Paul Beeston, who elevated himself to permanent status, is said to be such an admirer of Halladay that he have never wanted to trade him. Several GMs believe Beeston will want to keep Halladay, at least until the summer. And one GM said, "His value will be the same this summer."
3. Phillies: They are a win-now team, and while GM Ruben Amaro said last week that the focus is on third base and the bullpen, they are saving more than you'd think with the expiring contracts of Adam Eaton, Geoff Jenkins and Brett Myers. They also have the prospects to do it.
4. Angels: There's no evidence they're in the mix and are probably slightly more likely to take back John Lackey, but they are known as a stealth mover.
5. Mets: They've said they'll look into. But eventually, the likelihood is that they won't want to dedicate $46 million to two pitchers when they have other holes to fill (left field, catcher, bullpen, possibly second base).

Heyman.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... z0XEhtw0KB

by **JFLNYC** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 14:16:56

Hey man!

by **Woody** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 14:37:05

we need an @heman twitter graemlin

by **FTN** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 14:37:55

95% chance hes a Phillies

by **JFLNYC** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 14:51:23

Can't decide whether Heyman is more schlamiel or schlamazel. I'm thinking schlamazel.

by **thephan** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 14:57:34

Really... play their CARDS right...

by **phatj** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 18:45:54

Woody wrote:we need an @heman twitter graemlin

Using the etrade baby

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Phillies realistically in it for Halladay?

Will the Phillies realistically try to trade for Halladay?