Trent Steele wrote:

FTN wrote:Patience is fine if there truly is no other bidder. But

* I have a hard time believing Halladay would nix a deal to Boston, even if Philly is his preferred choice. Halladay, Beckett and Lester = game over

* Ricciardi is enough of a douchenozzle to not make a deal just to puff out his chest, especially if he knows hes going to get canned, which he is. If he makes a bad trade, it impacts future job opportunities.

I want Rube to make the best deal possible. But in my head, Drabek, Happ and Brown is fair for Halladay, which is what the Blue Jays allegedly offered. If that deal is no longer available because we waited and the Red Sox came in and made a legit offer that beats ours, then it backfired.

Edes is a Boston Globe guy, so the leak is coming from Boston. There are really two possible reasons for it:

1.) It's true.

2.) It's orchestrated BS between TE and JP in order to (a) get Cleveland to think the Red Sox are going to use Bucholtz to get Halladay instead of Lee and Martinez and (b) get the Phillies to think that they need to increase their offer for Halladay.

The unintended but foreseeable consequence of such a leak is that it pushes the Phils and Indians closer together.

Accordingly, I think the leak is accurate, Halladay is a Red Sox, and we're going to overpay for Jarrod Washburn in a panic trade on Friday afteroon.

I'd be right there with you if this was Wade handling things. But we have Gillick and the Smug Factor.

I have to believe they're smart enough to understand that Washburn doesn't give them that much better of a chance to win a playoff game than guys they have now. And with the big lead and the weakness in the division, there's no other reason to make a trade.

Hasn't this Boston rumor been debunked like 3 times today?

The Red Sox are like the Yankees all of a sudden. Their writers like to think they're players in every single deadline deal that is occurring right now. Somehow, the Red Sox were the reason the Giants got Garko and the sun came up this morning.

Trent Steele wrote:

FTN wrote:Patience is fine if there truly is no other bidder. But

* I have a hard time believing Halladay would nix a deal to Boston, even if Philly is his preferred choice. Halladay, Beckett and Lester = game over

* Ricciardi is enough of a douchenozzle to not make a deal just to puff out his chest, especially if he knows hes going to get canned, which he is. If he makes a bad trade, it impacts future job opportunities.

I want Rube to make the best deal possible. But in my head, Drabek, Happ and Brown is fair for Halladay, which is what the Blue Jays allegedly offered. If that deal is no longer available because we waited and the Red Sox came in and made a legit offer that beats ours, then it backfired.

Edes is a Boston Globe guy, so the leak is coming from Boston. There are really two possible reasons for it:

1.) It's true.

2.) It's orchestrated BS between TE and JP in order to (a) get Cleveland to think the Red Sox are going to use Bucholtz to get Halladay instead of Lee and Martinez and (b) get the Phillies to think that they need to increase their offer for Halladay.

The unintended but foreseeable consequence of such a leak is that it pushes the Phils and Indians closer together.

Accordingly, I think the leak is accurate, Halladay is a Red Sox, and we're going to overpay for Jarrod Washburn in a panic trade on Friday afteroon.

Or (as we have seen before) the names may have been discussed but not actually offered. For all we know the Sox made an offer and the Jays came back and said they want Buchholz. Just because someone has a source (supposedly) doesn't mean it is a good one.

FTN wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:

FTN wrote:Patience is fine if there truly is no other bidder. But

* I have a hard time believing Halladay would nix a deal to Boston, even if Philly is his preferred choice. Halladay, Beckett and Lester = game over

* Ricciardi is enough of a douchenozzle to not make a deal just to puff out his chest, especially if he knows hes going to get canned, which he is. If he makes a bad trade, it impacts future job opportunities.

I want Rube to make the best deal possible. But in my head, Drabek, Happ and Brown is fair for Halladay, which is what the Blue Jays allegedly offered. If that deal is no longer available because we waited and the Red Sox came in and made a legit offer that beats ours, then it backfired.

Edes is a Boston Globe guy, so the leak is coming from Boston. There are really two possible reasons for it:

1.) It's true.

2.) It's orchestrated BS between TE and JP in order to (a) get Cleveland to think the Red Sox are going to use Bucholtz to get Halladay instead of Lee and Martinez and (b) get the Phillies to think that they need to increase their offer for Halladay.

The unintended but foreseeable consequence of such a leak is that it pushes the Phils and Indians closer together.

Accordingly, I think the leak is accurate, Halladay is a Red Sox, and we're going to overpay for Jarrod Washburn in a panic trade on Friday afteroon.

I really hate this.

But that's how I feel too

I don't want Washburn at all. Unless its for some nominal prospect. But the Yankees are interested, so hopefully they do the dirty work for us.

Washburn is looking good again tonight. Would LOVE to see the Yanks overpay for him both as a Phils fan and an M's fan.

FTN wrote:Well, thats true. I really am trying to hold out hope that Gillick's underground in Toronto is the x factor, and that it can still get done. But I'm fully prepared for it to not happen.

me too. And I'm really hoping Boston isn't involved, though I can't see why they wouldn't at least be willing to make a solid offer. They have the parts to do it and could benefit by driving up the price to keep the Yanks out of the mix. Like us, they'd probably prefer to get him or have him stay in Toronto.

as i sift through all this it's making me think that maybe the phone company DID kill Kennedy

Bucky wrote:as i sift through all this it's making me think that maybe the phone company DID kill Kennedy

RIP

What's this we shit, JP? You're a lame dick/duck

FTN wrote:I want Rube to make the best deal possible. But in my head, Drabek, Happ and Brown is fair for Halladay, which is what the Blue Jays allegedly offered. If that deal is no longer available because we waited and the Red Sox came in and made a legit offer that beats ours, then it backfired.

It's well documented that this has been my fear all along. Deals have a moment. The longer you dick around and grind on price, the more you're asking for something like this to happen. It's just naive to paint the other side as an idiot with no leverage. Never, ever underestimate your opponent. Nobody likes to have his nose rubbed in it (especially when you've got a nose like Riccardi) and especially when the negotiations are so public. And, when your job is hanging by a thread, you are not going to want to look foolish by being waited out.

It's never a good strategy to try and back your counterpart into a corner and embarrass him. No one wants to be humiliated in public. If you want to close a deal, you've got to find a way to help him save face otherwise you're just asking for him to go elsewhere. And, it's especially true in a situation like this where it's obvious the Phils have/had a lot of leverage. That's the time to be a gracious winner and let your counterpart know you're not trying to bury him.

The whole strategy of "winning the deal" is all well and good for us to argue about. But in a very public negotiation in a very small business community like baseball, it's really short-sighted and often yields exactly the wrong result.

ek wrote:salisbury

Here's a dispatch from Jim Salibury, up in Seattle. The Inquirer has the Western time zone covered for you this week.

Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi indicated that he's still in contact with the Phillies but they still haven't met his price for Halladay. ``We still need to be motivated and we haven't been motivated,'' said Ricciardi, who still maintains that he doesn't have to trade Halladay, who pitches tomorrow in Seattle.

Well if the Boston rumor were true, you'd think that would motivate him.....

JFLNYC wrote:

FTN wrote:I want Rube to make the best deal possible. But in my head, Drabek, Happ and Brown is fair for Halladay, which is what the Blue Jays allegedly offered. If that deal is no longer available because we waited and the Red Sox came in and made a legit offer that beats ours, then it backfired.

It's well documented that this has been my fear all along. Deals have a moment. The longer you dick around and grind on price, the more you're asking for something like this to happen. It's just naive to paint the other side as an idiot with no leverage. Never, ever underestimate your opponent. Nobody likes to have his nose rubbed in it (especially when you've got a nose like Riccardi) and especially when the negotiations are so public. And, when your job is hanging by a thread, you are not going to want to look foolish by being waited out.

It's never a good strategy to try and back your counterpart into a corner and embarrass him. No one wants to be humiliated in public. If you want to close a deal, you've got to find a way to help him save face otherwise you're just asking for him to go elsewhere. And, it's especially true in a situation like this where it's obvious the Phils have/had a lot of leverage. That's the time to be a gracious winner and let your counterpart know you're not trying to bury him.

The whole strategy of "winning the deal" is all well and good for us to argue about. But in a very public negotiation in a very small business community like baseball, it's really short-sighted and often yields exactly the wrong result.

Points well taken and nicely said, JFLNYC.

I'm telling you. The Boston media is full of pretentious little writers who want everyone to think that the Red Sox are such a baseball powerhouse that they are able to make a play for every player under the sun, regardless of whether or not the guy is even available.

In NY, it's rumor-mill, tabloid stuff. In Boston, thanks to ESPN treating Boston as the holy grail, it's journalism.

The Savior wrote:I'm telling you. The Boston media is full of pretentious little writers who want everyone to think that the Red Sox are such a baseball powerhouse that they are able to make a play for every player under the sun, regardless of whether or not the guy is even available.

In NY, it's rumor-mill, tabloid stuff. In Boston, thanks to ESPN treating Boston as the holy grail, it's journalism.

well, they won 2 WS in the last 5 years, have a great ML team and a great farm system, as well as a really smart front office. there is a reason everyone figuratively blows them

FTN wrote:

The Savior wrote:I'm telling you. The Boston media is full of pretentious little writers who want everyone to think that the Red Sox are such a baseball powerhouse that they are able to make a play for every player under the sun, regardless of whether or not the guy is even available.

In NY, it's rumor-mill, tabloid stuff. In Boston, thanks to ESPN treating Boston as the holy grail, it's journalism.

well, they won 2 WS in the last 5 years, have a great ML team and a great farm system, as well as a really smart front office. there is a reason everyone figuratively blows them

Finished blowing them yet?

And they are able to make a play for every player under the sun.

FTN wrote:

The Savior wrote:I'm telling you. The Boston media is full of pretentious little writers who want everyone to think that the Red Sox are such a baseball powerhouse that they are able to make a play for every player under the sun, regardless of whether or not the guy is even available.

In NY, it's rumor-mill, tabloid stuff. In Boston, thanks to ESPN treating Boston as the holy grail, it's journalism.

well, they won 2 WS in the last 5 years, have a great ML team and a great farm system, as well as a really smart front office. there is a reason everyone figuratively blows them

I think in some cases it's not figuratively

20 minutes to omgonoesJPsdeadline.

cshort wrote:

FTN wrote:

The Savior wrote:I'm telling you. The Boston media is full of pretentious little writers who want everyone to think that the Red Sox are such a baseball powerhouse that they are able to make a play for every player under the sun, regardless of whether or not the guy is even available.

In NY, it's rumor-mill, tabloid stuff. In Boston, thanks to ESPN treating Boston as the holy grail, it's journalism.

well, they won 2 WS in the last 5 years, have a great ML team and a great farm system, as well as a really smart front office. there is a reason everyone figuratively blows them

I think in some cases it's not figuratively

All I know is I hope the Yankees win the next 100 consecutive AL East titles. Not anyone else: not the Blue Jays or Orioles or Rays. Just the Yankees. Because that will drive those smug fuck-ing bastards in Boston into the crazyhouse.

Ive said this elsewhere, but it bears repeating. I didnt like the Red Sox for the longest time. I hated the bandwagonesque feel of their fan base, the Gammons thing, and everything else. But living in Boston (and having a gf who is a Sox fan) has kind of changed me. Its completely different here in Boston I think. Fenway Park is amazing in every way. They have an awesome team. I'm genuinely jealous of their front office operation. Their owner isn't meddlesome, and in fact, seems like a pretty decent guy. They basically do everything right as an organization. The bandwagon fans still suck, but thats the case with every team. But being here in Boston has really changed the way I look at the team.