Trent Steele wrote:

ek wrote:holy crap, Law killed us

said Drabek is a #2-#3 and sits in the low 90's. said Happ is a fringe major leaguer and while he likes Brown, he's 2 to 3 years away. said he was utterly shocked we turned down the first offer

It doesnt matter. No one listens to Law.

JFLNYC wrote:IOW he had the same opinion of Raul as most around these parts.

JFLNYC wrote:My guess is he'll let Doc start Wed. in one last attempt to show he's not bluffing.

Trent Steele wrote:
I would much much much rather give them Drabek and Happ than Drabek and Taylor. Not even close imo, and, oddly, it appears that Toronto agrees, which should make this all the easier if the Phillies are thinking about it correctly.

JFLNYC wrote:IOW he had the same opinion of Raul as most around these parts.

Teammates Aaron Hill and Vernon Wells said Sunday that they expect Roy Halladay to finish out the 2009 season in Toronto.
As we move closer and closer to the July 31 trade deadline, it's becoming more apparent that a deal probably won't happen. Teams have balked at Toronto's "this-is-what-it-will-take" proposals, and Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi has indicated that he's not prepared to lower the price. " You know he wants to stay here or else a trade would have been made already," Hill said of Halladay. "He certainly is not forcing the issue."

SideshowBob wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:IOW he had the same opinion of Raul as most around these parts.

To be fair, I think most of the Raul criticism revolved around the years of the deal (combined with his age) and the loss of a draft pick than a general knocking of his abilities.

SideshowBob wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:IOW he had the same opinion of Raul as most around these parts.

To be fair, I think most of the Raul criticism revolved around the years of the deal (combined with his age) and the loss of a draft pick than a general knocking of his abilities.

Trent Steele wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:

ek wrote:holy crap, Law killed us

said Drabek is a #2-#3 and sits in the low 90's. said Happ is a fringe major leaguer and while he likes Brown, he's 2 to 3 years away. said he was utterly shocked we turned down the first offer

It doesnt matter. No one listens to Law.

Keith Law's Top 50 FA Heading into 2009

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove0 ... id=3698363


9. Milton Bradley
10. Oliver Perez
11. Pat Burrell
13. Kerry Wood
20. Brandon Lyon
21. Orlando Cabrera
27. Felipe Lopez
28. Jason Giambi
30. Edgar Renteria
31. Casey Blake
32. Jim Edmonds


33. Raul Ibanez

JFLNYC wrote:

SideshowBob wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:IOW he had the same opinion of Raul as most around these parts.

To be fair, I think most of the Raul criticism revolved around the years of the deal (combined with his age) and the loss of a draft pick than a general knocking of his abilities.

To be really fair there was a tremendous amount of complaining that he was in decline, couldn't hit lefties and was an horrific fielder.

Bakestar wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:

SideshowBob wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:IOW he had the same opinion of Raul as most around these parts.

To be fair, I think most of the Raul criticism revolved around the years of the deal (combined with his age) and the loss of a draft pick than a general knocking of his abilities.

To be really fair there was a tremendous amount of complaining that he was in decline, couldn't hit lefties and was an horrific fielder.

To be really really fair, I don't think anyone can honestly say they expected him to be anything close to what he's been so far. It's completely off the charts.

jeff2sf wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:
I would much much much rather give them Drabek and Happ than Drabek and Taylor. Not even close imo, and, oddly, it appears that Toronto agrees, which should make this all the easier if the Phillies are thinking about it correctly.

Trent, not sure I'm following. Toronto agrees with what? You? If so, how does that make things easier if the Phillies are thinking about it correctly (and presumable ALSO agreeing with you). If everyone would rather have Drabek and Taylor, it makes it harder to make a deal.

Phillies remain frontrunners on Halladay, but looking at Lee
The Phillies have identified Lee as their first fallback option should their talks with the Blue Jays fail to land them Halladay, and they scouted Lee's last two starts as he continues to pitch beautifully. There's been a lot of jockeying and posturing between the Phils and Jays over Halladay, but Philly remains by far the most logical landing spot considering their keen interest and stash of worthy prospects.

While the Phillies blanched at one Jays' proposal of Kyle Drabek, J.A. Happ and Dominic Brown (as they should have), feathers have been ruffled and apparently Halladay himself is now getting anxious, the sides have continued to exchange ideas. Though there remains a difference of opinion, there are deals to be made by mixing and matching with one or two of the three players above, plus pitcher Carlos Carrasco, shortstop Jason Donald, catcher Lou Marson and outfielder Michael Taylor.

As has been suggested several times in this space, the inclusion of the top pitching prospect Drabek would limit the secondary pieces while the inclusion of Happ would necessitate bigger secondary pieces. Brown, the best-liked outfielder, would be more unlikely to go with Drabek, for instance.

"It's early," one official with one of the teams pointed out, suggesting there's still time for a deal.

The Jays' self-imposed Tuesday deadline isn't being taken very seriously at this point, and they themselves indicated it wasn't necessarily a strict deadline if something was afoot.


Meanwhile, there was no evidence of big progress with any other team. The Jays requested a package from the Angels of pitcher Joe Saunders, infielder Erick Aybar, infield prospect Brandon Wood and a fourth prospect, a request that was surely going to go nowhere. The Angels were the first team to view their prospects as ultra-valuable years ago, and others have followed their lead. They are not changing their approach now. Besides, that proposal seems over the top.

The Rangers also have exchanged names with the Jays but seemed to believe their rival Angels were having more discussions with Toronto (and those talks are going nowhere).

The Dodgers also are thought to have exchanged names with Toronto. But one thing the Dodgers and Angels have in common, beyond their locale, is they don't like to give up prospects, and the Dodgers' offer was said to be considered low by one source. It's very unlikely that they top the Phillies' offers, which everyone believes will be the best Toronto gets.

ek wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AhvnU1e0o74E1NyUcw76gqQRvLYF.slug=ge-halladaytrade072709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns