Halladay IV: A New Hope

by **jeff2sf** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 23:12:16

Listen, milt, we really shouldn't fight. We both said some pretty hurtful things, you especially, but we're better than this.

I guess I've never forgiven you for ruining Orange Board Idol.

by **Woody** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 23:12:42

uncle milt will cut you south philly style, he fights dirty

by **lightsout54** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 23:14:16

my dream trade would be Carrasco, Happ, Marson, Donald.

Reality is it will also take Taylor and Drabek in place of Happ.

I'd still love Marson to be our C next year but let's face it, this organization has a hard on for Ruiz. I'd also love for Taylor to be our 4th OF next year but I think he has much more value to us as a piece for one of teh most dominant pitchers in the game.

I think Drabek can step in and be Happ next year. This is especially considering Happ is bound to regress. I think if you add Halladay you upgrade over Happ and I figure Martinez or Lopez could probably fill out the rotation competently. I'll take Blanton as a 3rd starter.

Next year you're looking at Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Drabek. I'm A-ok with this considering we'll still have a good lineup.

by **Wizlah** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 04:22:17

the one I'd kinda like to keep is carrasco, because his peripherals are still solid, and because it's feasible that he'd be our next callup for the number 4/5 spot to fill in for moyer and pedro.

Having said that, if he's going and that means we get to keep one of taylor/brown/drabek/knapp, fine. But I'd kinda like it if he was missed. Marson would be nice too. both of them give us options in areas which could do with improvement (catcher), or a bit more flexibility (back end rotation).

But ultimately, even if taylor, brown, drabek, knapp, carrasco, donald, marson and d'arnaud all went, it would only make me angry with rube. We'd still have halladay, and it wouldn't be a great trade, but it wouldn't be a bad one. there's no way I'm gnashing my teeth over it.

by **Wizlah** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 04:31:03

Trent Steele wrote:
FTN wrote:oh trent thats hurtful

you're mucking up my Halladay jones by debating with monkeypox.

Only one day ago, I was thinking that we didn't use the 'pox' enough on this board. Pox is an all time great insult. suberbly angry adjective, and poxy (especially when combined with 'little') is one of the all time great dismissals of a complete pain in the arse who's doing your bin in. Observe:

JPR, you poxy little wannabe-big-man-scheming-job-on-the-line prick, you'll trade halladay for happ AND LIKE IT.

Pox bitch.

by **Stay_Disappointed** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 06:09:30

VFB wrote:haz this been posted yet?

7:56pm: MLB.com's Todd Zolecki says GM Ruben Amaro has dismissed reports that Kyle Drabek is untouchable, confirming Olney's earlier report. Amaro apparently "did not have a sense either way" that the Phils would make any trades before the deadline, but Zolecki still says the Phils are in "hot pursuit" of Halladay.

by **kimbatiste** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:00:47

Bump.

It's been almost two hours since a post in this thread.

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:06:38

Roy Halladay
The Phillies and Blue Jays remain engaged in dialogue regarding Halladay, and the defending World Series champions are still viewed by baseball executives as the most logical and likely landing spot for the perennial All-Star. With deep pockets, their deeper reservoir of prospects and a resolve to repeat, the Phillies appear to have maintained the front-running position in the most-watched derby in baseball, with the teams exchanging names and apparently making some progress in recent days, league sources indicate.

The Jays are said to be aiming for a package that includes one of two top young pitchers, Kyle Drabek or J.A. Happ, plus one of two top outfielders, either Michael Taylor or Dominic Brown, plus a couple other highly regarded prospects. Shortstop Jason Donald and pitcher Carlos Carrasco are among other young prospects who are believed to have been discussed.

"They're trying hard," one exec said of the Phillies.

The Phillies told the local media and other baseball people they will do what the can to keep Drabek, a dynamic young pitcher with terrific stuff. If the Jays settle for Happ, who's having a terrific rookie season, they surely would insist that the remainder of the package be stronger. But while Drabek is considered the pitcher with the higher upside ("he has a plus fastball and plus breaking ball," one scout said), one Blue Jays-connected person said they could see Toronto doing a deal without Drabek.

Jays executive Tony LaCava was scouting Drabek in Altoona, Pa., Thursday according to the New York Times. Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi said in an interview a few days ago that no players on other teams had yet to be ruled out entirely.

Halladay seems more likely than ever to leave Toronto with the revelation Thursday via Ricciardi that Halladay told the Jays he wouldn't be signing an extension beyond 2010, which was the trigger to put him on the trading block. One acquaintance of Halladay said he believes he is "emotionally gone," and sources indicate that Halladay -- who has a full no-trade clause -- sees the Phillies as a favorable option.

The Brewers, Dodgers, Rangers, Giants, Cardinals, Angels, Yankees, Red Sox and Mets are among other teams that have shown interest. The Brewers may be the biggest threat to the Phillies, but probably only if they're willing with shortstop prospect Alcides Escobar and maybe also top hitting prospect Mat Gamel. Left-hander Manny Parra's name is believed to be in the mix, as well.

Phillies GM Ruben Amaro declined to comment when reached by phone. Ricciardi couldn't be reached Thursday night.

Heyman

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... index.html

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:10:28

I find it impossible to believe that Happ and Drabek are considered anywhere close to equivalent, but Heyman's article brings up an interesting question. I assume it would be Happ/Brown or Drabek/Taylor with extra needed for the first deal, so would you rather do...

Happ, Brown, Carrasco, d'Arnaud

or

Drabek, Taylor, Donald, Gose

by **BassGuiFloyd** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:10:40

Riccardi says they want guys who can help next year, so I could see them really pushing on Happ.

by **BassGuiFloyd** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:11:07

Riccardi says they want guys who can help next year, so I could see them really pushing on Happ and Taylor.

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:12:34

BassGuiFloyd wrote:Riccardi says they want guys who can help next year, so I could see them really pushing on Happ and Taylor.

If Happ and Taylor are the two main pieces, there's almost no secondary pieces I wouldnt give to get that deal done.

by **Woody** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:12:37

I love that Carrasco is being talked about as a throw-in at this point.

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:19:14

Woody wrote:I love that Carrasco is being talked about as a throw-in at this point.

I'd also prefer to keep him, but in reality, he will be no better than the 2nd prospect in any deal, and maybe the 3rd.

I'd rather have Drabek than Happ and Carrasco, so if they are deemed equivalent packages...so be it.

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:20:39

Heyman twitter

#Phillies still favored in #Halladay derby. Happ may work instead of Drabek.

by **slamjim** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:21:22

The big thing now is finding out that list of teams he told Toronto he would go to. That may knock out a few teams we are worried about. It either put insane pressure on Riccardi last night or really loosened things up for him.

I'm sure Riccardi does not want that list leaked. C'mon disgruntled insider!

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:22:27

slamjim wrote:The big thing now is finding out that list of teams he told Toronto he would go to. That may knock out a few teams we are worried about. It either put insane pressure on Riccardi last night or really loosened things up for him.

I would think that if Halladay really wants to go, he will leak that info

by **BassGuiFloyd** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:22:30

Trent Steele wrote:I find it impossible to believe that Happ and Drabek are considered anywhere close to equivalent, but Heyman's article brings up an interesting question. I assume it would be Happ/Brown or Drabek/Taylor with extra needed for the first deal, so would you rather do...

Happ, Brown, Carrasco, d'Arnaud

or

Drabek, Taylor, Donald, Gose

I wouldn't say IMPOSSIBLE...while Happ is 5 years older, the Jays may have heard the talk on Drabek being a "head case" or whatever is being said. Also, as great a 2009 that Drabek is having, his ERA, WHIP and H/9 are lower in the majors than Drabek's is in the minors (but still very close). Happ is more a proven commodity but still not as good of a prospect.

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:26:01

BassGuiFloyd wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:I find it impossible to believe that Happ and Drabek are considered anywhere close to equivalent, but Heyman's article brings up an interesting question. I assume it would be Happ/Brown or Drabek/Taylor with extra needed for the first deal, so would you rather do...

Happ, Brown, Carrasco, d'Arnaud

or

Drabek, Taylor, Donald, Gose

I wouldn't say IMPOSSIBLE...while Happ is 5 years older, the Jays may have heard the talk on Drabek being a "head case" or whatever is being said. Also, as great a 2009 that Drabek is having, his ERA, WHIP and H/9 are lower in the majors than Drabek's is in the minors. Happ is more a proven commodity but still not as good of a prospect.

yeah, but that likely fugazi since it flows from the fact that he has the lowest BABIP in the NL. he also has the biggest differential between his ERA and his FIP in the NL.

by **stevemc** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 08:28:32

If we somehow come out of this keeping Drabek & Brown. . . . . . . . . . . . (sorry, head exploded)

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Halladay IV: A New Hope