Halladay IV: A New Hope

by **cshort** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:41:24

FTN wrote:definitely monty.

just shows you a loser mentality is possible in the season after winning a world series

It is concerning. There's still alot of the Main Line, blue blood, low key aspects to the team (especially the ownership). Rube hopefully represents a more aggressive, outspoken attitude. The ownership needs to decide if they want to be the Red Sox of the National League or drift back into the shadows after a few years. They have a window of opportunity to sieze this, and if they don't, it will be closed in the next 2-3 years. It's time to make a statement.

by **S2D** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:43:13

FTN wrote:definitely monty.

just shows you a loser mentality is possible in the season after winning a world series

He's been a loser since he got that job. I don't think it's any coincidence that this team found almost instant success when Monty was relegated to nothing more than a check signer after Gillick was brought in.

by **Bucky** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:51:14

cshort wrote:
FTN wrote:definitely monty.

just shows you a loser mentality is possible in the season after winning a world series

It is concerning. There's still alot of the Main Line, blue blood, low key aspects to the team (especially the ownership). Rube hopefully represents a more aggressive, outspoken attitude. The ownership needs to decide if they want to be the Red Sox of the National League or drift back into the shadows after a few years. They have a window of opportunity to sieze this, and if they don't, it will be closed in the next 2-3 years. It's time to make a statement.

Well let me take the counterpoint here. Not necessarily what I believe, but it helps to see the other side.

What happens if they go for it with Halladay and still fall short?? The upward spiral doesn't happen. And they have less cogs to fall back on for the future, possibly creating a downward spiral. So do you want to take a chance to be the Red Sox, or stand pat and try to become the Braves of the 1990s- always close to the pinnacle?? Remember they're pretty much guaranteed all the revenue they can pocket the next 6-12 months anyway, so from a business standpoint, wouldn't it make more sense to do your best to secure maximum revenue for the period 12+ months out??

by **cshort** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:57:40

I prefer the high risk, high reward approach. I don't think we'll have to mortgage our future (just a piece of it), and I'm yet to be convinced that the ownership could put together a 10-15 year run of payoff caliber baseball, doing it the way they always have. This could be transformative for the franchise, making it a national name/brand, and a place players want to come to.

by **S2D** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 13:06:10

The Braves also (traditionally) have put a ton into the minors/scouting arms of their team, and had one of the best GMs in the history of baseball calling the shots for them. I agree with cshort, in that I don't have faith in this team being able to replicate that kind of success.

by **PSUPhilliesPhan** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 13:21:23

S2D wrote:
FTN wrote:definitely monty.

just shows you a loser mentality is possible in the season after winning a world series

He's been a loser since he got that job. I don't think it's any coincidence that this team found almost instant success when Monty was relegated to nothing more than a check signer after Gillick was brought in.

Probably one of the nicest and smartest guys in baseball as well. The problem is he graduated from Wharton and does not have baseball bloodlines. He looks at running the Phillies the same as being the CEO of a large company. There is no doubt he is opposed to trading for Halladay. He is currently running an EXTREMELY succesfull business, why make a major change? I really think we're going to see in the next week how much power Amaro has, because despite being quite smug, dude has some balls.

by **S2D** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 13:31:31

PSUPhilliesPhan wrote:
S2D wrote:
FTN wrote:definitely monty.

just shows you a loser mentality is possible in the season after winning a world series

He's been a loser since he got that job. I don't think it's any coincidence that this team found almost instant success when Monty was relegated to nothing more than a check signer after Gillick was brought in.

Probably one of the nicest and smartest guys in baseball as well. The problem is he graduated from Wharton and does not have baseball bloodlines. He looks at running the Phillies the same as being the CEO of a large company. There is no doubt he is opposed to trading for Halladay. He is currently running an EXTREMELY succesfull business, why make a major change? I really think we're going to see in the next week how much power Amaro has, because despite being quite smug, dude has some balls.

Gillick, with his resume, was too esteemed to take any input from Montgomery. For some reason, I don't see Monty thinking he can challenge and ask all those (whiny) questions about a decision if he thinks PG is on board.

Smuggy's smugness actually turns into a strength for him in dealing with Monty.

by **slamjim** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 13:47:34

espn.com article

The Phillies, Blue Jays, national media, local media and fans were reportedly all involved in an ongoing circle jerk

by **HillMD** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 13:48:41

I was having a hard time deciding if I would be upset with Drabek being traded or not. I decided to friend request him on facebook. If he accepted, I'd deem him untouchable in my mind.

He never responded to my facebook friend request. Therefore, my opinion on him changes and I have now developed a personal vendetta. I no longer care if he is traded.

by **GrizzledVeteran** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 13:51:07

HillMD wrote:I was having a hard time deciding if I would be upset with Drabek being traded or not. I decided to friend request him on facebook. If he accepted, I'd deem him untouchable in my mind.

He never responded to my facebook friend request. Therefore, my opinion on him changes and I have now developed a personal vendetta. I no longer care if he is traded.

He's dead to me. Trade him.

by **Werthless** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 13:59:46

HillMD wrote:I was having a hard time deciding if I would be upset with Drabek being traded or not. I decided to friend request him on facebook. If he accepted, I'd deem him untouchable in my mind.

He never responded to my facebook friend request. Therefore, my opinion on him changes and I have now developed a personal vendetta. I no longer care if he is traded.

Hank Baskett unfriended me at some point in the last year. :cry:

by **GrizzledVeteran** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:00:40

Werthless wrote:
HillMD wrote:I was having a hard time deciding if I would be upset with Drabek being traded or not. I decided to friend request him on facebook. If he accepted, I'd deem him untouchable in my mind.

He never responded to my facebook friend request. Therefore, my opinion on him changes and I have now developed a personal vendetta. I no longer care if he is traded.

Hank Baskett unfriended me at some point in the last year.

Kendra was no doubt behind this.

by **Woody** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:08:32

by **HillMD** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:15:06

Woody wrote:

He should have a better looking girlfriend too.

He's on his high horse now with all of the national attention, he's too good to accept friend requests from friendly Phillies fans.

by **Trent Steele** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:15:53

ek wrote:espn.com article

The Phillies have told Toronto they prefer not to include their top pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek, in a Halladay deal, but sources told Olney that the Phillies have not deemed Drabek untouchable

All part of Rube's master plan.

Drabek, Donald, d'Arnaud, Gose, Savery (or equivalent second tier pitcher).

FTW.

by **Grotewold** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:17:59

HillMD wrote:
Woody wrote:

He should have a better looking girlfriend too.

He's on his high horse now with all of the national attention, he's too good to accept friend requests from friendly Phillies fans.

He's clowning you now on Facebook. "HillJD"

by **JFLNYC** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:18:23

Guess you heard about the possibility of the big Roy Halladay deal?

Well, it could get bigger. A lot bigger.

If and when the Blue Jays send Halladay elsewhere, he could have company.

Say a team needs a middle infielder ... hop aboard, Marco Scutaro.

If someone needs bullpen help ... Jason Frasor or Scott Downs could join Halladay.

If a club needs a lefty specialist ... Brian Tallet could join Halladay on a plane out of Dodge.

"We've been told that the deal could expand, depending upon our need," said an American League scout.

The ideal Jays scenario is to stack up four or five offers from different clubs and say we like this one best (which dumps the most payroll).

They have not reached that stage yet as:

* The Jays want multiple looks at opposing teams' prospects who may or may not be in the mix, and

* Clubs have not finalized their offers.

The most intriguing team to surface in addition to usual suspects such as the Brewers, Phillies, Red Sox, Texas Rangers, St. Louis Cardinals and the Chicago White Sox are the Rays, who emerged on Tuesday night.

And there are more offers.

"They tell me they are getting calls from teams you would not guess if I gave you 10 guesses," one visiting scout said. "Not all the names in the papers and elsewhere are accurate. I don't think we're at that point yet. It's still early."

The Jays have until the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline to deal Halladay, but would like the trade completed before Tuesday. Halladay would be scheduled to start Wednesday in Seattle.

Toronto Sun

Getting Scutaro, too, would be great. But Jose Bautista would help (hits LHP, plays all 3 OF positions, 3B and even 1B or 2B in a pinch) and somebody like Frasor would help, too. One stop shopping.

by **Houshphandzadeh** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:21:35

i think that article is horsecrap

by **Squire** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:22:33

Trent Steele wrote:
ek wrote:espn.com article

The Phillies have told Toronto they prefer not to include their top pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek, in a Halladay deal, but sources told Olney that the Phillies have not deemed Drabek untouchable

All part of Rube's master plan.

Drabek, Donald, d'Arnaud, Gose, Savery (or equivalent second tier pitcher).

FTW.

That's about what I would offer though I'd stop at 4 guys not 5.

SQUIRE

Website · by **Wolfgang622** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:54:05

JFLNYC wrote:
Guess you heard about the possibility of the big Roy Halladay deal?

Well, it could get bigger. A lot bigger.

If and when the Blue Jays send Halladay elsewhere, he could have company.

Say a team needs a middle infielder ... hop aboard, Marco Scutaro.

If someone needs bullpen help ... Jason Frasor or Scott Downs could join Halladay.

If a club needs a lefty specialist ... Brian Tallet could join Halladay on a plane out of Dodge.

"We've been told that the deal could expand, depending upon our need," said an American League scout.

The ideal Jays scenario is to stack up four or five offers from different clubs and say we like this one best (which dumps the most payroll).

They have not reached that stage yet as:

* The Jays want multiple looks at opposing teams' prospects who may or may not be in the mix, and

* Clubs have not finalized their offers.

The most intriguing team to surface in addition to usual suspects such as the Brewers, Phillies, Red Sox, Texas Rangers, St. Louis Cardinals and the Chicago White Sox are the Rays, who emerged on Tuesday night.

And there are more offers.

"They tell me they are getting calls from teams you would not guess if I gave you 10 guesses," one visiting scout said. "Not all the names in the papers and elsewhere are accurate. I don't think we're at that point yet. It's still early."

The Jays have until the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline to deal Halladay, but would like the trade completed before Tuesday. Halladay would be scheduled to start Wednesday in Seattle.

Toronto Sun

Reads like Riccardi himself wrote it. "Lots of people are involved! Not just the Phillies and Yankees and Red Sox and Dodgers and Angels and Cardinals and Brewers and White Sox, but the Rays and Royals and Braves and Pirates are involved! The Orix Blue Wave are involved! Teams you've NEVER HEARD OF are involved! Yes sir, you'd better offer Drabek, Taylor, Brown, Knapp, Marson, Happ, Hamels, and Mike Schmidt's retirement plaque if you want to get this deal done boy-oh-boy, because this Halladay won't last long!"

Archived

Halladay IV: A New Hope