Monty kills the Halladay hard on

by **Grotewold** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:20:24

I'd definitely do it for a package that included neither Drabek nor one of Taylor/Brown.

If they insist on Drabek, I'm torn but would probably do it.

by **Brantt** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:24:48

ek wrote:FWIW, Morganti thinks that whole mets rumor was floated out there to get Philly to jump and he thinks it'll get done soon now

I tend to agree with this.

My biggest fear is Theo Epstein jumps into the fray at the last minute and ponies up and steals Halladay.

by **The Dude** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:25:50

As Woody said, why would they leak a crap package? Wouldn't they involve a team that was likely to get involved, and had legite prospects to get the deal done?

by **GMAN** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:27:16

Brantt wrote:
ek wrote:FWIW, Morganti thinks that whole mets rumor was floated out there to get Philly to jump and he thinks it'll get done soon now

I tend to agree with this.

My biggest fear is Theo Epstein jumps into the fray at the last minute and ponies up and steals Halladay.

For them to trade him in division to Boston the deal would have to be mind blowing.

by **Trent Steele** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:28:22

Rosenthal

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9833 ... e-Halladay

The Phillies are not just after Roy Halladay.

Asked Monday if the team was still pursuing Indians left-hander Cliff Lee, one club official responded, "We have many balls in the air. And we are still looking for top-of-the-rotation help."
Halladay, 32, has a better track record than Lee, who turns 31 on Aug. 30. But Lee represents an excellent alternative, and it's in the Phillies' interests to create the perception that they have other options.

The question is whether they actually do.

Early talks between the Phillies and Indians over Lee went nowhere. The availability — and durability — of Mariners lefty Erik Bedard remains in question. And the Phillies do not seem interested in second-tier starters such as Diamondbacks lefty Doug Davis.

In theory, the price in talent for Lee should not be as high as the price for Halladay. But Lee is owed about $11.5 million in salary through 2010, including a club option. Halladay is owed about twice that much, making him — in one important sense — less attractive.

The Indians, knowing they cannot compete next season if they move Lee, would consider moving him only for a knockout proposal. Such a proposal would need to start with a major-league ready starting pitcher such as the Red Sox's Clay Buchholz or Braves' Tommy Hanson.

The Phillies have such a pitcher — left-hander J.A. Happ, who is 7-0 with a 2.68 ERA. Adding Class AAA right-hander Carlos Carrasco and Class A outfielder Dominic Brown to the package surely would get the Indians' attention. But if the Phillies were to trade Happ and Brown, they probably would prefer Halladay, right?

Halladay is 11-3 with a 2.73 ERA this season, while Lee is 5-9 with a 3.31 ERA — and the fifth-worst run support in the American League. Lee also leads the league with 136 innings pitched, though Halladay has thrown only four fewer innings in two fewer starts.

Teams use sliding scales when determining the values of potential trade acquisitions: What players are they giving up? How much salary are they taking on? Thus, Lee would be more appealing than Halladay, if the overall price was right.

In any case, the Phillies would be wise to explore every option. They are the front-runners for Halladay because they possess the right combination of desire, prospects and financial flexibility. Teams such as the Red Sox and Yankees seem to lack desire. Teams such as the Dodgers and Angels seem to lack the right players.

J.A. Happ is a nice bargaining chip for Philly. (Chris McGrath / Getty Images)

The Phillies should not be fooled by their commanding lead in the NL East: They rank 13th in the NL in rotation ERA. Halladay would fit them perfectly. But so could Cliff Lee.

Don't believe the hype
The notion that the Jays cannot justify trading Halladay to the Phillies without acquiring Brown or the team's other top prospect, Class AA right-hander Kyle Drabek, is absurd.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

One scout who covers the Phillies says he likes Class A right-hander Jason Knapp, who is currently on the disabled list, even better than Drabek.

The same scout says he would be comfortable taking Class A outfielder Anthony Gose or Class AAA outfielder Michael Taylor if he could not acquire Brown.

Another scout says, "Michael Taylor is a beast. 6-foot-6, 250 pounds of athleticism and strength. Smart. Competitive. Throwback. Teammates call him 'The Renaissance Man.'"

Think back to the Rangers' haul for first baseman Mark Teixeira two years ago.

Yes, catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, shortstop Elvis Andrus and left-hander Matt Harrison were the Braves' top three prospects according to Baseball America. But at the time, Andrus was in High A, right-hander Neftali Feliz was in Low A, Harrison was injured and Saltalamacchia was hardly considered a sure thing.

One GM says a team can look for three elements in its player package when completing such a blockbuster — quantity, quality and proximity to the majors. Rarely does a team get all three. The Rangers went for quantity and quality, and were willing to wait on prospects such as Andrus and Feliz to develop.

by **The Red Tornado** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:28:30

The Dude wrote:As Woody said, why would they leak a crap package? Wouldn't they involve a team that was likely to get involved, and had legite prospects to get the deal done?

problem is that the Mets really have nothing to give and they wanted to scare us with our biggest rival. The Marlins make no sense since they are big money players and the Braves already have good pitching. They would have had better luck imo to use the Dodgers or Cards in the rumor. Altho it wouldnt surprise me if the Mets had a hand in the rumor since bidding up the price would be good for them (get Drabek out of the league, etc)

by **Brantt** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:30:39

GMAN wrote:
Brantt wrote:
ek wrote:FWIW, Morganti thinks that whole mets rumor was floated out there to get Philly to jump and he thinks it'll get done soon now

I tend to agree with this.

My biggest fear is Theo Epstein jumps into the fray at the last minute and ponies up and steals Halladay.
For them to trade him in division to Boston the deal would have to be mind blowing.

Two letters, one word................J.P. Riccardi.

by **The Dude** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:31:54

The Red Tornado wrote:
The Dude wrote:As Woody said, why would they leak a crap package? Wouldn't they involve a team that was likely to get involved, and had legite prospects to get the deal done?

problem is that the Mets really have nothing to give and they wanted to scare us with our biggest rival. The Marlins make no sense since they are big money players and the Braves already have good pitching. They would have had better luck imo to use the Dodgers or Cards in the rumor. Altho it wouldnt surprise me if the Mets had a hand in the rumor since bidding up the price would be good for them (get Drabek out of the league, etc)

Again, it doesn't bid up the price, that's the problem with it

by **Trent Steele** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:31:55

Trent Steele wrote: I think the deal is Drabek, Donald, Marson, Gose, and Savery.

Taylor, Brown, and Happ stay.

You watch...this is happening.

And anyone who wouldnt do that deal is a dope.

by **The Dude** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:32:56

Besides, why would Halladay waive his NTC to go there? None of it made any sense, if it was a bluff, it's one of the worst I've ever seen

by **The Red Tornado** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:32:59

The Dude wrote:
The Red Tornado wrote:
The Dude wrote:As Woody said, why would they leak a crap package? Wouldn't they involve a team that was likely to get involved, and had legite prospects to get the deal done?

problem is that the Mets really have nothing to give and they wanted to scare us with our biggest rival. The Marlins make no sense since they are big money players and the Braves already have good pitching. They would have had better luck imo to use the Dodgers or Cards in the rumor. Altho it wouldnt surprise me if the Mets had a hand in the rumor since bidding up the price would be good for them (get Drabek out of the league, etc)

Again, it doesn't bid up the price, that's the problem with it

I agreed with you that it was stupid why are you arguing with me?

by **The Dude** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:36:43

Not really arguing, but you said

"Altho it wouldnt surprise me if the Mets had a hand in the rumor since bidding up the price would be good for them (get Drabek out of the league, etc)",

and it doesn't bid up the price. I don't think either team really had a hand in it

by **Woody** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:39:09

My, how far we've come in such short time. Brings a tear to my eye

And the Phillies do not seem interested in second-tier starters such as Diamondbacks lefty Doug Davis.

This is precisely who they would have been targeting a year or two ago

by **The Dude** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:41:01

it's like after college, when you realize every girl ISN'T a crazy psycho

by **JFLNYC** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:41:11

Woody wrote:wouldn't that Mets rumor makes the Phillies lower their offer?

This is what makes JPR such an idiot who deserves to be bitchslapped. First, whether he really offered the Mets the deal or merely floated the rumor, it's a great big GFY to the Phillies. He didn't like the Phils' offer, had no others, so he tried to create a market where none existed and did it by offering Halladay (or reporting that he did) to the Phils' biggest rival.

If he thought the Mets would accept that offer, he's stupid. If he did it just to try to drive up the Phils' offer, he's an idiot because the Phils' response will be one of 2: Either to say "B'bye you stinking asshat" or to stand even more firm on (if not lower) their offer.

That's the sort of childish, spiteful behavior which can kill any chance you have to make a deal. If I owned the Jays, I'd fire him on the spot for sheer stupidity. I said earlier that I thought JPR wouldn't do anything to commit professional suicide. I was wrong -- he just did.

by **Woody** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:42:10

JFLYNYCFTW

by **The Red Tornado** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:42:46

The Dude wrote:Not really arguing, but you said

"Altho it wouldnt surprise me if the Mets had a hand in the rumor since bidding up the price would be good for them (get Drabek out of the league, etc)",

and it doesn't bid up the price. I don't think either team really had a hand in it

just because they think it bids up the price doesnt mean I think it bids up the price

by **The Dude** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:44:52

Yeah, but nobody does. I mean, it would be an epic failure at bluffing. I think it was just a bad source

by **drsmooth** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:49:34

Woody wrote:My, how far we've come in such short time. Brings a tear to my eye
And the Phillies do not seem interested in second-tier starters such as Diamondbacks lefty Doug Davis.

This is precisely who they would have been targeting a year or two ago

Would have been a reach inasmuch as he's not a middle reliever

Website · by **Wolfgang622** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:50:31

Riccardi would have to be an unusual combination of ballsy and stupid for that offer to have been merely a bluff. I mean - what if the Mets had said "yes"?

The only way it makes sense that it was a bluff is if the Mets were in on it - only that's against the rules, ain't it?

Archived

Monty kills the Halladay hard on