Monty kills the Halladay hard on

by **danrosz** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 00:24:04

I kinda hate that the Halladay talk is taking away from how well the Phillies are playing right now. Defending WFC's. Nine game winning streak. And all people want to talk about is ROY ROY ROY. You get a guy like Halladay to go on streaks like the one we're currently on and win a World Series like we did last year. I don't get the Halladay obsession. They've reached elite status without Halladay. I don't understand why you'd risk jeopardizing the future at all to get him. Unless you can get him for something that bogus Mets package, I don't do it. The only ROY we need is Rookie of the Year, JA Happ. I'm dusted. Enjoy the fucking moment. Forget about this Halladay guy.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 00:25:09

danrosz wrote:I kinda hate that the Halladay talk is taking away from how well the Phillies are playing right now. Defending WFC's. Nine game winning streak. And all people want to talk about is ROY ROY ROY. You get a guy like Halladay to go on streaks like the one we're currently on and win a World Series like we did last year. I don't get the Halladay obsession. They've reached elite status without Halladay. I don't understand why you'd risk jeopardizing the future at all to get him. Unless you can get him for something that bogus Mets package, I don't do it. The only ROY we need is Rookie of the Year, JA Happ. I'm dusted. Enjoy the $#@! moment. Forget about this Halladay guy.

No?

by **mcare89** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 00:26:35

hoya wrote:
mcare89 wrote:I think the Mets trade rumor thing is encouraging, because it pretty much cements that Heyman's source is either Ricchardi or somebody very close to Ricchardi.

I mean, it just makes too much sense.

Really? Why would would you float a rumor that the Mets wouldn't even give you four piles of $#@!?

That is a little odd, but who else would float that rumor?

by **FTN** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 00:49:19

danrosz wrote:I kinda hate that the Halladay talk is taking away from how well the Phillies are playing right now. Defending WFC's. Nine game winning streak. And all people want to talk about is ROY ROY ROY. You get a guy like Halladay to go on streaks like the one we're currently on and win a World Series like we did last year. I don't get the Halladay obsession. They've reached elite status without Halladay. I don't understand why you'd risk jeopardizing the future at all to get him. Unless you can get him for something that bogus Mets package, I don't do it. The only ROY we need is Rookie of the Year, JA Happ. I'm dusted. Enjoy the $#@! moment. Forget about this Halladay guy.

massive, epic fail. congrats

by **HillMD** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 00:51:28

danrosz wrote:I kinda hate that the Halladay talk is taking away from how well the Phillies are playing right now. Defending WFC's. Nine game winning streak. And all people want to talk about is ROY ROY ROY. You get a guy like Halladay to go on streaks like the one we're currently on and win a World Series like we did last year. I don't get the Halladay obsession. They've reached elite status without Halladay. I don't understand why you'd risk jeopardizing the future at all to get him. Unless you can get him for something that bogus Mets package, I don't do it. The only ROY we need is Rookie of the Year, JA Happ. I'm dusted. Enjoy the $#@! moment. Forget about this Halladay guy.

I feel that we can win again without him, but not many other people do.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 00:53:59

HillMD wrote:
danrosz wrote:I kinda hate that the Halladay talk is taking away from how well the Phillies are playing right now. Defending WFC's. Nine game winning streak. And all people want to talk about is ROY ROY ROY. You get a guy like Halladay to go on streaks like the one we're currently on and win a World Series like we did last year. I don't get the Halladay obsession. They've reached elite status without Halladay. I don't understand why you'd risk jeopardizing the future at all to get him. Unless you can get him for something that bogus Mets package, I don't do it. The only ROY we need is Rookie of the Year, JA Happ. I'm dusted. Enjoy the $#@! moment. Forget about this Halladay guy.

I feel that we can win again without him, but not many other people do.

Of course we can win without him again, but I think adding him makes us like 20% to win the WS instead of 13% (randomly making up numbers). Which is cool and nice. Is that 7% worth maybe knocking our chances of winning a division down the line by a bit? I dunno. Probably, depending on how much it hurts us down the line.

I think our team with Halladay would be nasty.

by **FTN** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 00:55:09

Personally, I'll take another ring this year or next and then deal with not winning one for another 5 years while we re-stock.

but thats just me.

by **mcare89** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:06:37

FTN wrote:Personally, I'll take another ring this year and next and then deal with not winning one for another 5 years while we re-stock.

but thats just me.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:13:36

hoya wrote:
mcare89 wrote:I think the Mets trade rumor thing is encouraging, because it pretty much cements that Heyman's source is either Ricchardi or somebody very close to Ricchardi.

I mean, it just makes too much sense.

Really? Why would would you float a rumor that the Mets wouldn't even give you four piles of $#@!?

Unless the Jays don't have any legit suitors besides the Phils and what we're offering is even less than that package. The Jays may be trying to get our F-Rod, which is Brown at this point. Maybe the Phils learned something from the Abreu debacle and won't give up much when they know a team is backed into a corner. If the Jays decide to not trade within the division, they may have no other choice than to wait us out.

I doubt we're the only ones involved though, so most likely the whole Mets thing didn't come from the Jays. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:20:17

FTN wrote:Personally, I'll take another ring this year or next and then deal with not winning one for another 5 years while we re-stock.

but thats just me.

If those are the options, then I would take it too. But the reality is much closer to what Jerseyhoya said: Get Doc now and moderately upgrade our chances the next two years, or keep the prospects and have a better chance to win consistently over the next 5-7 years. I personally prefer the latter strategy because I think the playoffs are largely a crapshoot and I don't think one pitcher upgrades your chances in the postseason THAT much. To me, get to the playoffs and take your chances. Doc would help win the division next year, but unless the Braves continue to streak, I think we have the division this year.

I do think, however, we could use another reliever for the back of the pen and a legit bench option. I'm hoping Myers will be that reliever. Getting willingham would be that bat. I would be very happy with only giving up Carpenter and a lesser prospect for willingham and going into the playoffs with a healthy myers in the pen and a chance to find 4 solid starters from Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Moyer, and Pedro. The Dodgers and Phils would easily be the favorites to come out of the NL, and the WS can go either way from that point.

by **Barry Jive** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:23:26

i really don't give a shit if we don't win again for another 20 years if it means we become a dynasty now. there have been more than 100 World Series winners. there have been 3 NL teams to win back-to-back World Series. and not many more to do it twice in three years. i'm in dynasty mode right now. pull the trigger.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:34:30

Barry Jive wrote:i really don't give a $#@! if we don't win again for another 20 years if it means we become a dynasty now. there have been more than 100 World Series winners. there have been 3 NL teams to win back-to-back World Series. and not many more to do it twice in three years. i'm in dynasty mode right now. pull the trigger.

But part of the reason why teams have so much trouble repeating in the modern era is because of all the variables that go into it. Like I said, if it would guarantee us another two WS wins, then I would do it in a heartbeat. I just don't think it's that simple. I think Doc only gives us a modest upgrade in our chances to win it this year. It's not like he pitches every day.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:37:50

It's only a modest uptick in our chances, but trading a couple of our top prospects might only register as a slight down tick in our chances from 2011-2015 or whatever.

by **philliesphhan** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:53:59

danrosz wrote:I kinda hate that the Halladay talk is taking away from how well the Phillies are playing right now. Defending WFC's. Nine game winning streak. And all people want to talk about is ROY ROY ROY. You get a guy like Halladay to go on streaks like the one we're currently on and win a World Series like we did last year. I don't get the Halladay obsession. They've reached elite status without Halladay. I don't understand why you'd risk jeopardizing the future at all to get him. Unless you can get him for something that bogus Mets package, I don't do it. The only ROY we need is Rookie of the Year, JA Happ. I'm dusted. Enjoy the $#@! moment. Forget about this Halladay guy.

You're nuts if you don't get the obsession. And how did Happ get this next Steve Carlton status after pitching 94 innings this year? After 96 IP in 1995, Tyler Green had a 2.81 ERA.

by **philliesphhan** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:54:30

Monkeyboy wrote:
Barry Jive wrote:i really don't give a $#@! if we don't win again for another 20 years if it means we become a dynasty now. there have been more than 100 World Series winners. there have been 3 NL teams to win back-to-back World Series. and not many more to do it twice in three years. i'm in dynasty mode right now. pull the trigger.

But part of the reason why teams have so much trouble repeating in the modern era is because of all the variables that go into it. Like I said, if it would guarantee us another two WS wins, then I would do it in a heartbeat. I just don't think it's that simple. I think Doc only gives us a modest upgrade in our chances to win it this year. It's not like he pitches every day.

Yeah, but Halladay being in our playoff rotation would be HUGE.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:58:01

jerseyhoya wrote:It's only a modest uptick in our chances, but trading a couple of our top prospects might only register as a slight down tick in our chances from 2011-2015 or whatever.

Agreed. The trick is picking the right prospects. I don't like the idea of giving up Drabek, Brown, or Taylor. Drabek is about as sure of a thing as a pitching prospect can be, and I gotta think at least one of the other two will end up being somewhere between above average and an All-Star. They also be cheap, which is the only way to keep the core that develops.

Anyway, I can see both sides of it, but I come down slightly on the side of keeping the top prospects and using the other guys to upgrade where needed (righty bat, reliever if Myers doesn't look ready, average 4th-5th starter).

by **FTN** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:59:30

looks like Monty already did his job. plenty of folks crowning JA's ass and saying we don't need Halladay.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 02:02:01

I wish I caught that Monty interview. I would have liked to hear what he said about Bobby Wine.

by **bleh** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 03:02:17

Monkeyboy wrote:I wish I caught that Monty interview. I would have liked to hear what he said about Bobby Wine.

http://www.950espn.com/Audio/tabid/183/ ... omery.aspx

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 03:24:46

bleh wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:I wish I caught that Monty interview. I would have liked to hear what he said about Bobby Wine.

http://www.950espn.com/Audio/tabid/183/ ... omery.aspx

Thanks, I'll check it out.

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Monty kills the Halladay hard on