I don't know what to believe anymore.

To me, it's better to say something negative that ends with a feeling of relief when you find out it's not true, than to say something positive that ends in a feeling of disappointment when you find out it isn't true. In the end, I'd rather feel relieved than disappointed. At any rate, there were so many positive and negative things being said that I thought what I did was pretty par for the course.

One way or the other I think we've got at least a few more days to wait. Halladay won't start again until after the ASB and my guess is that MLB would frown on anything happening before the game, both because of the awkwardness of Halladay being on the AL roster and because they don't want anything to upstage the game. IMO there doesn't seem to be much reason (other than our hearts) for anything to get done immediately.

bleh wrote:Halladay Will Waive No Trade Clause for Phillies

that was good i like that

Phillychuck posted this on the "other" board...

I heard a rumor from a guy I know in the commisioner's office that the Phils had offered Donald, Taylor, Drabek, and Carrasco for Hallady.

IMHO the Jays would be complete idiots not to take that if it's true.

We get back 1.5 years of Halladay plus 2 draft picks ... and the Jays get a LOT of salary relief, plus 4 of our top 10.

I wouldn't do this deal if I were the Phils.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:

bleh wrote:Halladay Will Waive No Trade Clause for Phillies

that was good i like that

I'm still clicking on it.

PA_Dan wrote:Phillychuck posted this on the "other" board...

I heard a rumor from a guy I know in the commisioner's office that the Phils had offered Donald, Taylor, Drabek, and Carrasco for Hallady.

IMHO the Jays would be complete idiots not to take that if it's true.

We get back 1.5 years of Halladay plus 2 draft picks ... and the Jays get a LOT of salary relief, plus 4 of our top 10.

I wouldn't do this deal if I were the Phils.

Yeah, that's too much. Two starting pitchers, probably good ones, a potential star outfielder, and a likely solid regular shortstop.

The more I think about this, the more I wouldn't want to see anything more than a) Drabek, Donald, and a guy like Bastardo or b) Taylor/Brown, Happ, Donald, and one or two from the next group of pitchers and D'Arnaud.

dajafi wrote:

PA_Dan wrote:Phillychuck posted this on the "other" board...

I heard a rumor from a guy I know in the commisioner's office that the Phils had offered Donald, Taylor, Drabek, and Carrasco for Hallady.

IMHO the Jays would be complete idiots not to take that if it's true.

We get back 1.5 years of Halladay plus 2 draft picks ... and the Jays get a LOT of salary relief, plus 4 of our top 10.

I wouldn't do this deal if I were the Phils.

Yeah, that's too much. Two starting pitchers, probably good ones, a potential star outfielder, and a likely solid regular shortstop.

The more I think about this, the more I wouldn't want to see anything more than a) Drabek, Donald, and a guy like Bastardo or b) Taylor/Brown, Happ, Donald, and one or two from the next group of pitchers and D'Arnaud.

but if the offer is THAT good then you'd think the Jays would have jumped already, which is why I think it's false or the price is much higher than any of us thought it would be.

PA_Dan wrote:Phillychuck posted this on the "other" board...

I heard a rumor from a guy I know in the commisioner's office that the Phils had offered Donald, Taylor, Drabek, and Carrasco for Hallady.

IMHO the Jays would be complete idiots not to take that if it's true.

We get back 1.5 years of Halladay plus 2 draft picks ... and the Jays get a LOT of salary relief, plus 4 of our top 10.

I wouldn't do this deal if I were the Phils.

If that is our starting offer, I'm worried. The more I think about this the more I am less interested in trading four or five of our best young talent for Doc.

We are currently in first in our division with Myers out (but probably not coming back), Hamels not being Hamels, and Moyer stinking up the place. Blanton has been alternatively terrible and great but overall about what you'd expect. Only Happ is pitching better than expected.

Now this could the WFC speaking but do we really need Doc? At this point, I'd rather sign Pedro and look to trade for a mid-level guy should Moyer not improve.

The next 2-3 years are a crossroads for the Phillies. We could go for it and try to win another series in that timeframe. Or we could with the same nucleus and adding relatively modest players like Blanton and Feliz. Personally, and this would be 100% opposite had we not won last year, but I prefer the latter. If played right, the Phillies could be setting themselves up for a decade of being legitimate WS contenders.

Obviously a Halladay deal would not definitively signal a course either way but it will cretainly be a strong indication of the Phillies philosophy to approaching the decline years of the current nucleus.

The Red Tornado wrote:but if the offer is THAT good then you'd think the Jays would have jumped already, which is why I think it's false or the price is much higher than any of us thought it would be.

True, unless they think they can wring even more out of Boston or LAA.

I still think the weirdest element of this whole thing is that Ricciardi is charged with making a trade (or not) that will have long-term consequences for his franchise which, in all likelihood, he won't be around to oversee. It's a bit like if Wade had been kept after 2005 and told to make a Thome trade.

bleh wrote:Halladay Will Waive No Trade Clause for Phillies

There is something wrong with this link.

kimbatiste wrote:

PA_Dan wrote:Phillychuck posted this on the "other" board...

I heard a rumor from a guy I know in the commisioner's office that the Phils had offered Donald, Taylor, Drabek, and Carrasco for Hallady.

IMHO the Jays would be complete idiots not to take that if it's true.

We get back 1.5 years of Halladay plus 2 draft picks ... and the Jays get a LOT of salary relief, plus 4 of our top 10.

I wouldn't do this deal if I were the Phils.

If that is our starting offer, I'm worried. The more I think about this the more I am less interested in trading four or five of our best young talent for Doc.

We are currently in first in our division with Myers out (but probably not coming back), Hamels not being Hamels, and Moyer stinking up the place. Blanton has been alternatively terrible and great but overall about what you'd expect. Only Happ is pitching better than expected.

Now this could the WFC speaking but do we really need Doc? At this point, I'd rather sign Pedro and look to trade for a mid-level guy should Moyer not improve.

The next 2-3 years are a crossroads for the Phillies. We could go for it and try to win another series in that timeframe. Or we could with the same nucleus and adding relatively modest players like Blanton and Feliz. Personally, and this would be 100% opposite had we not won last year, but I prefer the latter. If played right, the Phillies could be setting themselves up for a decade of being legitimate WS contenders.

Obviously a Halladay deal would not definitively signal a course either way but it will cretainly be a strong indication of the Phillies philosophy to approaching the decline years of the current nucleus.

I generally agree with this post although Blanton has not been alternately terrible and great; he has been nearly lights out since the end of May. As much as I would love to see Doc in Phillies red that deal is too much to give.

Meh, I'd do that deal for Roy Halladay. I'd want to try to do it for less, but I would do it if that's what it took. This team should not be thinking about having enough to win the division, it should be thinking about having enough to repeat as WFC.

Moyer's actually been solid/good eight of his last ten starts. As for Hallady, for me it hinges on whether we think we can (or want to) probably sign him long-term.

Id do that deal in a heartbeat.

The market for SP this winter is terrible. And if Halladay comes here and likes the team and the city, there's no reason you can't sign him to a deal. People are throwing around crazy numbers, salary wise, but he's 32, he's not comparable to what Sabathia got. I think he'd sign a 5/85 deal, and that would be a damn good deal for the Phillies. If you lock him up, losing Drabek and Carrasco really doesn't mean much. Carrasco at this point is a huge question mark for me anyway. So you're basically trading Drabek, Taylor and Donald for him. Thats a win for the Phillies.

We have to get an extension if the deal is that rich, right?

FTN wrote:Id do that deal in a heartbeat.

The market for SP this winter is terrible. And if Halladay comes here and likes the team and the city, there's no reason you can't sign him to a deal. People are throwing around crazy numbers, salary wise, but he's 32, he's not comparable to what Sabathia got. I think he'd sign a 5/85 deal, and that would be a damn good deal for the Phillies. If you lock him up, losing Drabek and Carrasco really doesn't mean much. Carrasco at this point is a huge question mark for me anyway. So you're basically trading Drabek, Taylor and Donald for him. Thats a win for the Phillies.

This.

Taylor is my favorite prospect, so I wouldn't do any deal with him in it.

The closest I'd do would be Drabek (centerpiece), Donald, Carrasco, and Knapp.

I'd consider that painful but fair.

I'd be hesitant to include all 3 of Drabek, Carrasco, and Knapp, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Otherwise, fire away and get this shit done.

phillychuck wrote:Taylor is my favorite prospect, so I wouldn't do any deal with him in it.

The closest I'd do would be Drabek (centerpiece), Donald, Carrasco, and Knapp.

I'd consider that painful but fair.

Top three pitching prospects, but leaving the positional ranks pretty much untouched. Interesting. At that point, you're putting considerable faith in one or more of Bastardo/Worley/Savery/Flande stepping up within two years to be a decent major-league starter.

I generally value position prospects over pitching prospects, but that might be an artifact of the years--decades--when the Phils couldn't get their best arms to the majors intact and effective. With that seemingly no longer the case, I would have a lot of trouble dealing all three of those pitchers.

If Carrasco and Knapp meant no Drabek, and then the other pieces were one of Taylor/Brown plus Donald, I'd probably jump at that.