Butler will be a crap contract in 2 years and Heat are losing this series in 6 but great game from him

joe table wrote:Butler will be a crap contract in 2 years and Heat are losing this series in 6 but great game from him

Agree on the contract, although tbf that makes it at least 2 years better than Tobi’s.

I’d have traded that crap in 2 years for a ring this year.

I'm fairly sure of two things:

1) Even if the Sixers did everything right by hindsight last summer within realism (bring back Butler, let Harris walk and replace him with the best case scenario of what his remaining cap space would be), I still don't think the Sixers would have won the title this year, or even beaten Milwaukee. Obviously we'll never know, but I think Milwaukee would be the favorite in that series.

2) They would pretty clearly be in a much better position to make moves toward that goal had they done that, or even just a true run it back where they kept both Butler and Harris. One truly bad contract is doable, but two is almost impossible to work with.

Of course, but the narrative that we were so close to winning last year is a bit overblown, if kawhi misses we’re in OT on the road still and then dogs next 2 series, I still think acquiring jimmy was a worthwhile move but we weren’t favorites in East or something this year with him

Without a closer we’re not winning a championship anytime soon.

JFLNYC wrote:Without a closer we’re not winning a championship anytime soon.

Take this to the Phillies thread too

he’s not a good enough closer to win one either I’d say - need to find a younger one

Jimmy may not be the one but he’d be a damn sight better than what we (don’t) have now. But he’s gone, so it doesn’t matter.

But the discussion of a closer informs my take on what I believe the Sixers should do moving forward. I expect little agreement with my take but here it is: I think we should definitely consider trading Jo or a Ben or both for the following reasons:

1. Each has a fatal flaw: Jo either can’t or won’t get in acceptable playoff game condition now for a couple of years. Ben still refuses to shoot enough 3’s and other jumpers to keep defenses honest enough to help Jo’s game and that of other teammates.

2. Neither is likely to become the closer we need. Jo lacks the conditioning and can’t be trusted with the ball in crunch time. Ben hides during crunch time for fear of being fouled.

3. Both are not particularly durable. Jo’s had a broken bone in his back, a couple of navicular fractures, a torn meniscus sand bone bruise, and now has arthritis in his knee as an inexorable result of meniscus surgery. Ben has now had both significant back and knee problems this year.

Can one or both overcome his/their fatal flaw? Maybe, but maybe not. Can one become a closer? Very, very unlikely a big man like Jo can become the primary crunch time ball handler and creator even if he’s in top shape and learns to take care of the ball. Ben? Without a willingness to shoot jumpers and a desire and ability to shoot and make FT’s, I think it’s also unlikely. The injury situation can’t really be controlled but will continue to be worrisome.

I’ve heard the argument many times that a new coach should be allowed the chance to make it work with Jo and Ben and that argument might be right. But, first, even if a new HC makes it better I doubt either of them becomes a closer and perhaps the only way to get one is by trading Jo and/or Ben.

Plus, giving a new coach the opportunity does not come without risk. If a new coach can’t make it happen and Jo and Ben continue to show their fatal flaws and/or an unwillingness to correct them and/or injuries continue to haunt them, their value could well be significantly lower in a year. At some point each could cross that line between unproven ability and proven inability.

It’s just my take and I could be proven wrong — as it will no doubt be pointed out to me. Time will tell. But even if we haven’t yet reached it, we’re getting near the point where doing the same thing over and over — specifically trying to win it all with Jo and Ben — and expecting a different result becomes insanity.

I've yet to see a realistic Simmons and Embiid trade that makes the Sixers a better team or puts them in position to be a better team rather than just a different team.

You have to ride out a season with a different coach first. Most championship cores don’t win with their first coach.

at least jo can say there is no one better in the league at cryptically posting like a teenaged girl on social media than him

Feel pretty certain that if we do trade one of them it will be embiid.

gr wrote:Feel pretty certain that if we do trade one of them it will be embiid.

Good riddance.

Ah the classic story of the gm building a garbage roster around the best player, best player getting annoyed by the garbage roster, then people turning on best player.

Where are those front office changes they promised, btw?

MoBettle wrote:Ah the classic story of the gm building a garbage roster around the best player, best player getting annoyed by the garbage roster, then people turning on best player.

Where are those front office changes they promised, btw?

Anyone turning on Embiid is a stone idiot.

Just to be clear, I'm not turning on embiid. I think he's just more likely to get dealt because of a variety of factors, not least of which he's a pain in the ass of mgmt and seems more likely to ask to be traded.

Embiid for Towns

I wonder if GSW might have some limited interest in Horford - we’d probably have to throw in another asset to even get the notoriously crap Wiggins contract back in that deal, and they might want to give Wiggins a full year with their healthy team, but it terms of the few possible Horford landing spots, that one makes some sense

Are we sure that Horford is even tradeable?