rolex wrote:

MoBettle wrote:Him shooting 3s is specifically part of the question of what he's doing when he's off ball: Should he always just be setting screens or setting up in the post or in the dunker spot or should he occasionally rotate out to the corner and shoot if someone passes him the ball. In the past there are a handful of times per game where the offense breaks down specifically because he's doing something weird instead of going to an open spot and taking a shot.

I'm not sure if anyone ever covers him out there but him just making the normal basketball play more would alleviate that issue to some extent.

No one expects Ben to be Steph Curry lite but if he’s going to be a point position player, he needs to be able to hit the outside shot enough to make people defend him. I have hope for him that he can develop that capacity because of his athletic ability. IR that Magic was not a good shooter when he entered the game but he became proficient enough that opponents had to watch him all over the floor. Perhaps the next coach can help bring that out of him. If it happens, Ben could be one of, if not the best player in the league.

There are two questions: (1) Can he make outside shots; and (2) Will he take them?

JFLNYC wrote:

rolex wrote:

MoBettle wrote:Him shooting 3s is specifically part of the question of what he's doing when he's off ball: Should he always just be setting screens or setting up in the post or in the dunker spot or should he occasionally rotate out to the corner and shoot if someone passes him the ball. In the past there are a handful of times per game where the offense breaks down specifically because he's doing something weird instead of going to an open spot and taking a shot.

I'm not sure if anyone ever covers him out there but him just making the normal basketball play more would alleviate that issue to some extent.

No one expects Ben to be Steph Curry lite but if he’s going to be a point position player, he needs to be able to hit the outside shot enough to make people defend him. I have hope for him that he can develop that capacity because of his athletic ability. IR that Magic was not a good shooter when he entered the game but he became proficient enough that opponents had to watch him all over the floor. Perhaps the next coach can help bring that out of him. If it happens, Ben could be one of, if not the best player in the league.

There are two questions: (1) Can he make outside shots; and (2) Will he take them?

Right now, his ability to hit those shots is questionable. So should he take them? Probably not.
It all boils down to what Ben wants to be. If he wants to be a great one, he needs to work and develop the outside shot.

We spent so long asking if Ben would take threes, we never stopped to ask if he should take them.

Should we worry about this knee injury? I thought someone posted that one of the reasons for the injury can be uneven leg growth.

I think Giannis is a relevant case study and, at least in my view, suggests that Ben taking 3s is overrated. Giannis took nearly five 3s a game this year at just over 30% for a TS% of around 45%. That percentage is both not very good and probably about the best you could hope Ben to achieve in the near term.

So the question is whether shooting that inefficient shot opened the floor for Giannis (and would for Ben)? Based on my limited viewings of Giannis, the answer is no. Teams seem to allow Giannis to shoot open 3s whenever he wants. Indeed, if you look at Giannis's career stats, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between his 3 point attempts and his 2 point %. So if teams aren't changing how they guard Giannis even when he's taking five 3s a game, why would they change how they guard Ben if he started taking 3s (but not making them at a league average rate)?

It seems to me, the only thing that's really going to open the floor up for Ben is if he can make 3s at a decent clip. That's a pretty bid, likely unrealistic, ask.

Every time I watch the Raptors, I think about the fact that the Sixers had the 24th and 26th pick in the draft and took TLC and Korkmaz when Siakam when 27th. In and of itself that blows, but the fact that Siakam is from Cameroon just makes it seem almost like they were intentionally trying to fuck it up.

Trent Steele wrote:Every time I watch the Raptors, I think about the fact that the Sixers had the 24th and 26th pick in the draft and took TLC and Korkmaz when Siakam when 27th. In and of itself that blows, but the fact that Siakam is from Cameroon just makes it seem almost like they were intentionally trying to fuck it up.

Yes though I doubt we would have reacted well to them taking a 22 year old power forward that went 3-17 from 3 in college. Just a crazy path to being an all nba guy.

TLC and Korkmaz were rated pretty highly. Some mocks had TLC in the top ten that year. Siakam was a project player that we almost definitely would’ve fucked up.

gags12 wrote:I think Giannis is a relevant case study and, at least in my view, suggests that Ben taking 3s is overrated. Giannis took nearly five 3s a game this year at just over 30% for a TS% of around 45%. That percentage is both not very good and probably about the best you could hope Ben to achieve in the near term.

So the question is whether shooting that inefficient shot opened the floor for Giannis (and would for Ben)? Based on my limited viewings of Giannis, the answer is no. Teams seem to allow Giannis to shoot open 3s whenever he wants. Indeed, if you look at Giannis's career stats, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between his 3 point attempts and his 2 point %. So if teams aren't changing how they guard Giannis even when he's taking five 3s a game, why would they change how they guard Ben if he started taking 3s (but not making them at a league average rate)?

It seems to me, the only thing that's really going to open the floor up for Ben is if he can make 3s at a decent clip. That's a pretty bid, likely unrealistic, ask.

Every guy around him can shoot.

The Savior wrote:

gags12 wrote:I think Giannis is a relevant case study and, at least in my view, suggests that Ben taking 3s is overrated. Giannis took nearly five 3s a game this year at just over 30% for a TS% of around 45%. That percentage is both not very good and probably about the best you could hope Ben to achieve in the near term.

So the question is whether shooting that inefficient shot opened the floor for Giannis (and would for Ben)? Based on my limited viewings of Giannis, the answer is no. Teams seem to allow Giannis to shoot open 3s whenever he wants. Indeed, if you look at Giannis's career stats, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between his 3 point attempts and his 2 point %. So if teams aren't changing how they guard Giannis even when he's taking five 3s a game, why would they change how they guard Ben if he started taking 3s (but not making them at a league average rate)?

It seems to me, the only thing that's really going to open the floor up for Ben is if he can make 3s at a decent clip. That's a pretty bid, likely unrealistic, ask.

Every guy around him can shoot.

Agreed. I think it's more important to surround Ben with shooters than it is for Ben to shoot a lot of threes at an inefficient rate.

I agree with gimpy when he says that you have to see how to roster looks under a new coach. In my opinion, it's not for Jo or Ben, but for Tobias. The Sixers are likely stuck with that contract until it expires. Against the Celtics, he didn't even look like an NBA player. Too many players who have come here have looked like a worse version of themselves for the past few years. You have to see if that's the coach or the player before making any drastic changes.

I do think a new coach could be a wake-up call fo Jo and Ben, though. I think Jo, if he thinks it will help him win, will respond to a coach being hard on him. I'm not so sure Ben will.

Trent Steele wrote:Every time I watch the Raptors, I think about the fact that the Sixers had the 24th and 26th pick in the draft and took TLC and Korkmaz when Siakam when 27th. In and of itself that blows, but the fact that Siakam is from Cameroon just makes it seem almost like they were intentionally trying to fuck it up.

Collar’s feelings toward Embiid probably didn’t help there.

They may be from the same country, but fuck Douala, am I right?

Trent Steele wrote:Every time I watch the Raptors, I think about the fact that the Sixers had the 24th and 26th pick in the draft and took TLC and Korkmaz when Siakam when 27th. In and of itself that blows, but the fact that Siakam is from Cameroon just makes it seem almost like they were intentionally trying to fuck it up.

And imagine how much Malcolm Brogdon would’ve helped the past few years.

lethal wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:Every time I watch the Raptors, I think about the fact that the Sixers had the 24th and 26th pick in the draft and took TLC and Korkmaz when Siakam when 27th. In and of itself that blows, but the fact that Siakam is from Cameroon just makes it seem almost like they were intentionally trying to fuck it up.

And imagine how much Malcolm Brogdon would’ve helped the past few years.

Horford over Brogdon was a bad decision

Jokic 30/15 in G7 v. Gobert sure is something

Trent Steele wrote:Every time I watch the Raptors, I think about the fact that the Sixers had the 24th and 26th pick in the draft and took TLC and Korkmaz when Siakam when 27th. In and of itself that blows, but the fact that Siakam is from Cameroon just makes it seem almost like they were intentionally trying to fuck it up.

Am i remembering correctly in that part of BC's logic of taking foreign players at those two spots was that there was this hope that they wouldn't come over right away, thus freeing up roster spots for other players. Siakam was coming out of college in the US so that wasn't an option for him.

TLC came over right away. That was probably the case for furkan though it’s not like he was seen as a reach there.

IDK they weren’t the best players available in retrospect, but they were also late first round picks and they’re still probably still going to be in the league getting minutes 5 years later. That’s not a terrible outcome. Like the guy picked 25 Brice Johnson hasn’t played in the league since 2018.

It was somewhere around that time that the league evolved significantly around spacing and shooting. Or at least the ramifications of what GS did/built was manifesting itself throughout the league.

Gimpy wrote:We spent so long asking if Ben would take threes, we never stopped to ask if he should take them.

Maybe I'm in the minority or something but I just wanted him to take open 12 footers like just about every guard in the league does.