Uncle Milty wrote:Guess we'll know tomorrow but seems a lot like "shuffling the deck chairs". Non-tendering both paints the team into a corner as well.

I think paying either of them would paint them into a tighter corner because clearly neither is tradeable at their respective numbers. I think the only thing non-tendering both would require would be the acquisition of either an everyday second baseman (which, hell, could even be Cesar at a lower number than his arb figure) or an everyday third baseman, with Kingery filling the other spot. Given the choice, I'd rather the third baseman. Or, obviously, they could do the Gregorius thing and move Segura to second, which I'm less of a fan of, but, whatever, I'd live with it.

They absolutely have to acquire one infielder if they non-tender both. I think that costs you some leverage in trades and with FAs. If you're not ready to pencil Haseley in as starting CF they need to acquire 2 position players.

I'm all for it if they're signing Rendon. Less than him I'd rather Cesar for a year at 12M than Didi, Moustakas, etc. on a multi-year deal.

In my perfect world you trade Segura and give Kingery his full-time shot starting at SS.

I thought the team would play out the string with Caesar, but $12M is hard to wrap your head around for his inconsistent play. I will wish him luck.

Franco was inevitable. Perhaps he can reboot his career with a change of scenery.

What if Cesar goes to a team like Boston and hits 30 HRs. That would not reflect well on this org. But I think there's a good chance he's back here next year as the first guy off the bench.

Uncle Milty wrote:
I'm all for it if they're signing Rendon. Less than him I'd rather Cesar for a year at 12M than Didi, Moustakas, etc. on a multi-year deal.
.

Agreed

bleh wrote:What if Cesar goes to a team like Boston and hits 30 HRs. That would not reflect well on this org. But I think there's a good chance he's back here next year as the first guy off the bench.

I will be thrilled for him if that happens,

Seems like there’s an issue with the system if the arbitrator is picking a number that the other 29 teams would deem untradeable?

MoBettle wrote:Seems like there’s an issue with the system if the arbitrator is picking a number that the other 29 teams would deem untradeable?

I think it's essentially the same disconnect we're seeing with FAs.

Non-tendering Cesar and Franco is the right move but another slight against Klentak. Both had reasonable trade value in the past two years and will now be lost for nothing. He's a below-average young GM showing no signs of improvement.

PSUPhilliesPhan wrote:Non-tendering Cesar and Franco is the right move but another slight against Klentak. Both had reasonable trade value in the past two years and will now be lost for nothing. He's a below-average young GM showing no signs of improvement.

"Both had reasonable trade value in the past two years" doesn't ring true to me. The other GMs don't know about arbitration, or the numbers likely attached to either of them?

And if you trade them a year or two ago, who is playing 2b and/or 3b? An FA making more money? Part of their value to the phillies was that they were providing the production they were at the salary they were making. I guess you could make the argument that you could have traded ceaser and played kingery at 2nd full time, but Kingery was a pretty big question mark coming into this season and for a team with post season aspirations, going with the more proven commodity in Caesar seems completely defensible.

And who would have been Gabe's whipping boy?

leave the nontendering of caesar to DiM

Uncle Milty wrote:

MoBettle wrote:Seems like there’s an issue with the system if the arbitrator is picking a number that the other 29 teams would deem untradeable?

I think it's essentially the same disconnect we're seeing with FAs.

With the added issue that the number can’t adjust to a down free agent market.

I suppose it just allows guys to enter free agency earlier which is a good thing for the player.

Well, I had intended to work today, but I found this on YouTube and now there goes most of my day. One of SIX:



Minor complaint: some of these aren't really all that obscure. But some are. Only one way to find out!

Also, does it ever strike anyone else as profoundly odd that there have been THREE players named Vukovich/Vuckovich in MLB history, that none of them were related, that all three had overlapping careers in time, and that two of them played for the Phillies? Has anyone ever met a Vukovich in actual, real life? Approximately 1 in every 227,273 people in America today have that last name. There have been just 19,680 MLB players TOTAL, in 150 years of the enterprise.

Someone who is good at odds come up with the expected odds that out of 19,680 people spread across 150 years, that three of them would be named Vukovich/Vuckovich, without any relation among them, and with them all playing in the same window of time (1970-1986). It boggles my mind.

there's no way franco had trade value for anything more than a middling rp or longshot prospect right?
oh wait, we could use those.

Wolfgang622 wrote:Also, does it ever strike anyone else as profoundly odd that there have been THREE players named Vukovich/Vuckovich in MLB history, that none of them were related, that all three had overlapping careers in time, and that two of them played for the Phillies? Has anyone ever met a Vukovich in actual, real life? Approximately 1 in every 227,273 people in America today have that last name. There have been just 19,680 MLB players TOTAL, in 150 years of the enterprise.

Someone who is good at odds come up with the expected odds that out of 19,680 people spread across 150 years, that three of them would be named Vukovich/Vuckovich, without any relation among them, and with them all playing in the same window of time (1970-1986). It boggles my mind.

you scare me a little

Wolfgang622 wrote:Also, does it ever strike anyone else as profoundly odd that there have been THREE players named Vukovich/Vuckovich in MLB history, that none of them were related, that all three had overlapping careers in time, and that two of them played for the Phillies? Has anyone ever met a Vukovich in actual, real life? Approximately 1 in every 227,273 people in America today have that last name. There have been just 19,680 MLB players TOTAL, in 150 years of the enterprise.

Someone who is good at odds come up with the expected odds that out of 19,680 people spread across 150 years, that three of them would be named Vukovich/Vuckovich, without any relation among them, and with them all playing in the same window of time (1970-1986). It boggles my mind.

In the first 70 seasons of the NBA/ABA/BAA, there were only two guys with the initials AI and the second one started his career as a teammate of the first one.

Every nba player named Furkan has only played for the Sixers.